When We Were Married Ch. 02D

Some of the commentators think that Bill is a wimp; in some respects he is. That being, he doesn't want to destroy her reputation. Remember, she has children and they must be protected as much as possible from adversity from friends, acquaintances and other nefarious individuals. So far, he is not a wimp as he did not let her get her way in regards to her "friend." After reading her emails, he knew his marriage was over and did not equivocate. He did have sex with her roughly out of anger and lust, after all she is his wife and he was hurt and betrayed...he needed to exert his manliness on her to soothe his self esteem.

Great soap, but a missed point about our Bill...

Slut-wife: "She stepped back from him and looked him up and down.

"The only thing I'm really pissed off about is that you finally went and started getting back into shape. After our marriage went into the trash. But, I guess, at least, the future Mrs. Maitland will reap the benefits."

What Bill might have said: "Well, I have time now. I had a job and a wife and kids and more of a commute before..."

Good read. One question though. How does one drive a 2010 car when it's 2005? Each part is labeled by the date and time, but right off the bat in one of those said portions, she gets out of a car that's from 5 years in the future.

Characters are amazing, DQS classic. As much as I hate Debbie, Mona is 10 times worse. She's the worst whore on the site. I absolutely loath her. She has no redeeming qualities at all. Flat out narcissistic slut. I'm perpetually pissed that they reconciled. That's the one DQS story I cannot read again, it just pisses me off too much. I gotta take care of my heart.

Have listened to a hundred stories and I've never commented. This one was close to some of my life experiences. Like Bill I do my best to always do the right thing. I've been married three times in my life. The first marriage lasted 4 years we grew apart. The second marriage we were together for about 4 years and we had two children she got hooked on drugs. I got custody of the kids in California in 1982. In 1989 I got married for the third time we were together for 30 years had two more kids. Now I will be single until the day I die and that is my choice. I recommend that every man create a fuck you fund so when you do get divorced you're not financially weak. Whichever one of your parents you trust the most have an account in their name and you're the beneficiary. If you ever need to borrow money from your family you borrow it from that account and you pay it back. Basically pay yourself 10% on every dime that you make put it in that fund when you're my age you'll look at it as the best advice you ever got.

I would still not forgive Debbie for the lies, not communicating that she was breaking away, not communicating her relationship with Doug, the emails, or any of the MULTITUDE of things she SHOULD HAVE been talking to him about. I would STILL give her parents copies of those emails.

Bill should have seen that his relationship with his children was waning, and done something earlier. He should have seen that his relationship with Debbie was also falling apart, and not been so comfortable with it.

Both sides are guilty of helping to destroy the marriage. It takes 2 to tango......

Some closure, some foreshadowing, still its beginning to drag... thanks.

Why is Kelly's assault being taken so lightly?

Still hoping she ends up in a ditch somewhere. Completely selfish narcissistic bitch. Bill still a wimp cuck. "I'll always be there fo you." Seriously??? Still not one character in this story to cheer for. Even the kids are messed up little pricks.

The author is turning the Debbie character into a caricature. Sorry it just doesn’t ring true. A common failure of male writers trying to understand women innermost thoughts, emotions, feelings, etc

I wish I had a friend like Lew . A Free Lawyer is something I have never had .. 4 stars

ok this story is just getting stupid at this point. i havent finished all the pages for this chapter yet and i only finished the first one to be exact but Debbie is waaaaaaay over doing the whole slut thing and like someone else said the author is way too obsessed with dicks. It is slowly going from a pretty decent story to just pure nonsense.

Author is obsessed with dicks. Apparently in this world guys are just rubbing their dicks all over everyone. Women are always checking out bulges. It's weird

Lew is a rock star!!!!

“If he was” is used to refer to things that actually happened, while “if he were” is used to refer to things that may happen.

Despite seeming to be a tramp Debbie covered for him with the kids and managed to raise them well. Still wondering where this will go?

Sometimes, when the love is gone is gone forever. Nobody will be able to fill that void.

Well we finally learn in this part that Debbie is nothing but a piece of meat and she is a slut.

That's all Debbie knows and all she wants from men.

When Bill stopped treating her like a piece of meat (even if his reasons were somewhat his fault) she went to find someone else who would treat her like a piece of meat. Instead of fighting to the death for her marriage as she should have.

Holy shit though. Lew is awesome! Finally Debbie got the wake-up call she needed!

She is a train wreck looking to crash.

seems like Debbie has a constant need to tease beyond acceptable levels just to prove to herself she is sexy, hot, beautiful, etc. Witness no bra for meeting with the lawyers. Really???? how professional

Yeah, she was definitely in the 3 F category. Some woman like men have character and dedication and no how to be faithful and some don't. If you want to screw around why get married? I could never understand that mentality. If you can't live up to your promises don't make them. This story is real life, the author has just changed the names to protect the guilty and the innocent. He is merely writing about what these people are really thinking and how they are dealing with life and all the problems that come with it. Can't remember who said it but I think it's true: "All men live lives of quiet desperation". I always lived one of I live and let live and don't or didn't really care what people thought of me. That changed after a failed marriage and my two girls left me but there I go again feeling sorry for myself and regretting how things turned out but you know we really have no control over life, it just happens. Your born, you live, love, hate and you die. Great story it really depresses me.

holy shit it was getting harder a nd harder to connect with this guy I still think he is a idiot for letting a job own him, deserting his family for that job. at least he figured out that part. him owning his life and making amends to the woman he drove away might be interesting but he's got to grow and she has to overcome the neglect she put up with for a decade this emotional affair bullshit is getting old though

Just another story about a Narcissist woman, and a man who allows his work, to become his reason for existence. I don’t think either one was blameless, but usually in a divorce, it’s not 100% black and white. I think his wife could have been a lot more discreet about her marriage, and ended things with hubby, before moving on. In reality, I think she was too addicted to the “ high” of other men paying attention to her. Here is a public service announcement to all men who are dating, and think they have found “ the one”. If she craves attention from other men, she is not wifey material. Get what you can, and then move on. It’s that simple.

The fact that wifey got her thong in a bunch, when she saw how he had changed, speaks volumes to her shallowness. This was a woman, who the 3 F’s were made for. Find em, fuck em, and forget em. In any case, very realistic story. I gave it 5 stars...

Oops, Forgot Something

I meant to add, when I found out and one way or another, sooner or later I would, Cheryl would be toast with everyone knowing she betrayed a trust. Lew doesn't need to be the only shark in those waters. Signed: BTW

Lew Really Should

Pay attention to what Debbie said about Mona and Norman.

"She got angry all over again. The sorry bastard had the nerve to be angry at her when he'd all but shoved her into another man's bed. He'd never know about all the parties, the campus events, where tall, slim men danced with her and rubbed their hard cocks all over her pussy, felt her breasts and left her so wet she had to retreat into bathrooms to finger herself to quick, messy climaxes.

It would have been so damned easy to slip out to cars, or into the shadows, lower her panties and let them pound her into unending orgasms. But she hadn't. She'd been the good wife. She'd never tell her loving husband about the men she'd let get her hot and wet and then denied sex to." Yep, that's exactly how I'd define someone being "...the good wife." I've never used the word 'slut' in reference to any women I've been involve with although many in society would have used that term liberally. I usually found out either near the end of the relationship or sometime after. I have no problem using it about Debbie, it seems she was before, when and pretty much stayed one the whole marriage, right up to the present time as she documented herself. The good wife my ass, I'll just stop at shallow. Lew opened her eyes to how despicable of a person she really is, has her reexamining her opinion of Bill and now she has to be questioning her feelings about her boy toy the Douche. I know the answer but I still find myself hoping that Lew will follow through with her emails finding there way out there... One mistake she/Q made; during the meeting with Lew, as she was reading the email copies, she was questioning to herself how Bill had gotten them as she deleted each one right away. Obviously not you self-absorbed, cheating cunt. I have rarely seen someone eviserated more effectively in a story than what Lew did to Debbie, it was even sweeter after her attempts to seduce him failed, that had to be a blow to her skanky ego. When it comes down to where the rubber meets the road, the good guys need a Lew to do what they can't. Except for the age difference Liam Neeson would fit the role for me. Signed: BTW

Best chapter of the series.

I could name many chapters in this series that are great and come back to and read just those chapters because I enjoy them, but IMHO, this is the best chapter.

Debbie finally sees what a piece of shit she was for cheating on Bill, and Lew laid it all out for her. Everyone needs a friend like Lew.

second time around and she is realizing a bit about what she has lost. Great writer, I wish I could add more to the story but I lack a any real imagination, that's why I'm a mechanic and you are a writer.

So enjoying this series so far. The author needs to get into Debbie's mindset a bit more and more into what their married life was like. She comes across as quite selfish and almost delusional. She is married to a man whose job is bound to come first it's like being married to a doctor the patients needs always outweigh that of the family. We also need to see how the marriage was did Bill make as much time for his family as he could. His children's lives were obviously affected by his work. The author needs to get into the family dynamics so that the reader gets to see the whole picture and not just what comes across as Debbie being a selfish self centred bitch.

Unfortunately, there are women whose self worth is directly related to he cup size. I am dealing with a girlfriend with that very problem. Beautiful but always unhappy and never content. While reading this it reminded me of one of my truisms of life: "show me the most beautiful woman, and I will show you a man who is tired of fucking her."

I love the character of Lew! absolutely great character arc!

I am not sure if I should continue to read this story. The character of Debbie is awful. Do you as the author believe a womans worth is directly related to her cup size, or is it a mechanism to show how truly shallow the cheating wife is?

The bitch finally seeing what she lost and realizing she could never get it back, What a stupid broad and a professor at that. Just shows even if you have degree it doesn't mean you smart! The writing an story are good and the characters well fleshed out. Hope you don't ruin it in the end.

The story is keeping me coming back for more and more. But, it if this was reality, all i can say is...why didn’t she talk to him a few years before and tell him how the marriage was going down the toilet, and try to re-kindle things with him before it came to the point that it did. But, as I said, that’s reality. If that’s were done, there wouldn’t be a story to tell.

God bless the sharks like Lew. Damn, that was satisfying.

Despite a few charitable gestures, Debbie keeps sinking lower in my estimation.

Which obviously means she's going to come out of this alright.

That you are using your, obviously superior, writing skills to write about two of the most unlikable characters on literotica. The woman is the very definition of a heartless, self-centered slut and the man is a spineless, pussy whipped idiot.

Lew is a great friend and lawyer. Wish I had him in MY divorce!!! Too bad he turns CUCK later...

I wish My Lawyer was as good a friend to me as Lew was to Bill .. Someone should check on Mona for Lew ..

That's all. No redeeming qualities. Just a pair of big tits with a snatch that isn't happy without 8 inches shoved in as far as possible. They don't come any shallower than her.

I read last good bye first. Somehow I want to change my 5* vote after reading this chapter. Mona really needed to be burned after all! :0(

For a marriage to survive both parties need to work together. The same holds true when one is destroyed. No matter how strong the wall of love is it will weaken if one half stops supporting that love. If both people ignore the cracks in the wall it will crumble into rubble.

Back and forth with Debbie

Any redeeming qualities ?

Not all wives let men play with tits and ass grabbing and grinding

Been around a lot of dancing and other things

It happens but I have seen men get told off loudly and in some cases slapped

I have also seen husbands and boyfriends use physical force

We love lew, we love lew,,,, he da man!!!

Now there we have a true friend in Lew, who could call a spade a spade to the disloyal slut Debbie.How did she spend 17 years with a man she didn't cheat on ( other than allowing men to pet her and her tits and rub their their erections on her wet pussy) and still feel she was faithful to him? Debbie is just ruled by her pussy and can't help being a slut!!

Debbie needs to be knocked down a notch or two. No such thing as gold plated pussy or tits. If she cant be faithful shes not worth it imo. No pussy is worth the heartache.

Lew has cast iron balls. Talk about going to the mat for a client.

There is too much dialogue here. This is a typical mistake of writers that impose their own thoughts on their characters. It make the whole story extremely artificial:

"I hate that you found them, and more than that, I hate the way you found them. I don't know if Lew told you, but when he told me, I lost it. I got physically sick. I hated you for letting our marriage go, for not caring for me more than that damned job, but I know you've always loved me in your own way. I thought about what you must have felt, what must have gone through your mind when you read what I'd written about you. I never understood why you left your ring and that bloody note. Not until that moment when I was trying to puke my guts out."

That is BS, people do not talk like that. This is organized thinking of a writer not a talk in real situation. It is artificial to the extreme. Typical of psychobabble style writing, so often around here.

Faculty members in universities do not talk nor behave in the way suggested in this Chapter. I know that. I would also assume that people in district attorneys office or lawyers do not talk this way also. The cursing and innuendos displayed in this Chapter are more typical of rednecks and immature adolescents.

This is one sad piece of writing, portraying accomplished human beings as slaves to their sex organs. People do stupid things and do talk trash sometimes but this writer goes well beyond that. Every faculty member in any university is a researcher, they spend a lot of time on that and their job. They are not rubbing their dicks and pussies into each other. In my decades of work I have never seen anything like that in college events ("parties") between faculty members, I have no idea where this writer dreamed about that, it is so absurdly ridiculous.

This is very poor redneck style garbage chapter, sorry to say that.

Please review Ch 02D, page one, again. The date is July 7, 2005 and Deb is parking her 2010 car.

Don't know what the two of them are thinking. It seems that they might have the correct mindset to hold off the divorce for a while, see how it goes, maybe some counseling. They have each seen where they went wrong, they still love each other even if Debbie won't admit it. Wish I'd had an atty. like Lew!

Debbie comes off as a wanton tramp, used to men falling all over themselves trying to get into her. Bill comes off as a wimp, obsessed with his job. If he was just a smidgen as aggressive and detail conscious at home, the marriage wouldn't be in the sad shape it is. And Debbie can talk about intimate details about her problems with Bill to Doug, when she should be discussing them with Bill. And a woman who is willing to throw in the towel on her marriage over her husband's weight problem is shallow and immature. Does she think she is going to be youthful and beautiful into her golden years? Is she in for a rude awakening. Bill is right about one thing...his job is so demanding that there isn't room for lengthy relationships.

People! People! People! It's only a story. A good story, but only a story. So put away your Cuckphobia/latent homophobia. Just relax and enjoy a good tale.

Only pathetic!!

With a lawyer like Lew, who needs friends? That guy is not just a shark, he's a barracuda, a Great White, and a T Rex all rolled into one. You gotta love a lawyer like that. If he's YOUR lawyer.

There's plenty of blame to go around in this marriage. You have an obligation to keep yourself fit and attractive as you can, which Bill failed to do. You also have an obligation to inform your partner if there's a problem that is jeopardizing your relationship which is what Debbie failed to do. Do you think just because you get a divorce or break off a relationship that the next one won't have its own set of problems? Life...life is solving problems!

This Cunt will fuck anything that moves. There is no way she wasn't fucking other guys. Hell she gets wet when one looks at her. And every time she went out she was letting guys feel her up. You obviously left out what she was doing to them. Of course you have to make Bill the biggest fucking sissy wimp ever. The loser is goign to take the heartless skank slut back by the end and she will continue to cheat but with him ok with it. probably even make him a total fag. This has turned to shit.

She said she had done everything in her power to get Bill to change. But it was she who cutoff sex with Bill. And she could send e-mails to Loverboy, but she couldn't send e-mails to Bill? She really was a bitch and a whore. She was married to Bill for almost 18 years, but never went to the courtroom to watch Bill in action? She was a pitiful excuse for a wife. And we know how greedy she was. And how little respect she had for one of the most powerful men in Florida. I hope he really gets buff and skilled as a boxer.

Where did the words come from for you to write in the wife as a bitch and whore from hell that every reader will hope? I hope you didn't draw from a real life experience.54

"And that kiss?" - And the fact that everyone there accepted you and Doug as a couple and thought of Bill as a willing cuckold!

"Bill had already humiliated me" - And YOU hadn't humiliated him?

"Take my kids away from me in a very real way. To stop me from getting alimony?" - Because you don't deserve alimony!

"I mean, they always feel like they have to be -- careful -- around you." - And is that so bad? They should ALWAYS be careful!

"Eighteen years ago we both thought we were going to be in it for life." - Yeah, and we've seen how THAT turned out!

I still don't buy that "he left her first" crap. I don't care how hard she SAYS she tried to get him in shape, there is ZERO doubt in my mind that if she put her mind (and other things!) to it she could have gotten him to cut back at work and to get himself into shape.

nobody will ever consider this to be harmonius in its nature, TK U MLJ LV NV

"No matter how old or professional or respectable they were, they were all just walking penises." - Boy, it's good to know she has such a high opinion of men! No wonder it was so easy for her to just shit on her marriage!

I love KarenE's comments about how she would dirty dance with other men to the point that she needed to get herself off, doesn't tell her husband, yet thinks she's a "good wife" because she didn't fuck them! And how she "tried" to get Bill to get into better shape, yet she supposedly has this "power" over men, but can't get her own husband, who LOVES her to change enough to keep her from cheating! It's painfully obvious that she's an attention whore, and even if her husband DIDN'T work long hours, and was a romantic hunk,she would still be doing the same sort of things! Okay, MAYBE she wouldn't be as susceptible to seduction by a younger guy, but then again she would find some other reason: his job is so BORING, he's not on the same intellectual level, we've all seen it dozens of times before.

"Bill would probably be in jail after killing somebody." - So, the damned flabby MIDDLE-AGED Bill does have some balls? You would think that she thought so from her demeaning description of him!

"They could afford to be virtuous, because nobody but their husbands wanted them." - Wow, she doesn't TOO much of an ego problem, does she?

"And worse of all, dammit, her tits and her body had never gotten to him." - Maybe because he is a FAITHFUL spouse! I realize that's an alien concept to her!

"She knew her nipples were sticking out like some whore looking for action." - Interesting choice of words! Freudian slip, maybe?

"I have a lot of fine qualities, not all of which are immediately visible." - Unlike Debbie, who has few fine qualities which aren't immediately visible!

She claims to have tried to get him to the gym, but failed. Again, this is the same woman who claims to be able to turn any man into a panting puppy at her feet with the crook of her little finger!

"Those were my private, my personal-" - Yeah, WAY too personal for a MARRIED woman to be sending to a male colleague!

"a woman getting ready to walk out of a marriage where she felt trapped and unloved." - SHE was unloved?

"He's their father, Lew. Even if we really hated each other I could never keep him away from them." - Once again citing KarenE: Wasn't there the little matter of a restraining order?

"He would never go behind my back, even if Mona was willing. And she never will be." - I think Bill would have said the same about Debbie.

"telling him secrets that she had never told her husband" - And therein is the nub of the problem - yes, Bill was clueless, yes, he was married to his job, but when she is telling OTHER men secrets that she doesn't share with her husband she has crossed the line.

"Did the fact that somebody loved you entitle them to keep you in chains" - Gee, I'm sorry that she consider marriage to a man who loves her, supported her and their children, to being "in chains"!

"She knew it and had to admit it because she realized what she'd feel if she discovered that he had been doing the same thing." - At least SOME honesty from her! A refreshing change from the cheaters who DO have sex and claim, "Oh, it was just sex, it's YOU I love.".

"And poor Bill probably couldn't even lift one of those udders." - LOL, she puts down women whose boobs don't compare to hers, but as soon as hers aren't the biggest the other woman is cow and her tits are udders. And she doesn't even see the irony!

I find it hard to believe that it took her so long to recognize Bill. Yes, he's in better shape and he's shaved his head, but they were married over 20 years!

That should be engraved in stone some where. It's so true, some wounds you can still feel after 35 years, but the scars keep them from bleeding your heart's blood all over the floor whenever you remember. At first a little bit of hate feels so good filling the hole where love was, but after a time, indeference grows the scars.

DHL

Debbie had been portrayed as an intelligent and skilled professor, rather than as a walking set of breasts.

Gripping story. Great exploration of the different facets of the relationship and how this came to pass. Things are rarely black and white and you have represented that really well. The desire not to be trapped in a hollow relationship, looking for a way out, the guilt and regret about doing something about it. Nicely done.

You gto me going with this chapter. I find myself not wanting to put it down. I can't wait to see what's next.

"He's their father, Lew. Even if we really hated each other I could never keep him away from them."

Um, do the words "restraining order" ring a bell?

Great story & writing so far - can't wait for the next Ch. Hope I'm ready for it.

Well you made her out to be even more of a castrating bitch in this chapter.

Quotes fro early in the story:

Thursday July 7, 2005

My name is William Maitland...

...

As she slid out of her 2010 Nissan 370Z...

Bill's being too hard on himself.

Okay, he threw himself too much into the job, but did she ever try to talk to him about it?

And, sure, she tried to push him to get into better shape, but how hard did she really try? Like Lew said, she could get just about any man to do just about anything. Are we to believe that there was nothing she could do (or not do, "wink, wink!") to get him to the gym?

From Lew puncturing Debbie's kelvar coated self assurance and pseudo self-righteousness, to the scene where she stands outside the window and speculates about the distant and yet somehow familiar stranger sweating in the gym, this installment is a tour de force.

Yet Bill's culpability in the demise of their marriage is acknowledged as well. DQS hits every emotional note on the keyboard in this virtuoso literary performance. As a complete story, I prefer 'Separate Vacations' . It gets no sadder then this and yet both parties are wiser and in end analysis, better for having known each other. Their priorities and dreams had irreconcilably diverged

. They both leave each with regrets as to how they parted, but deep in their hearts each know the time to start over had come.

Good old Lewis, he's the man. Bill really needed Lew to step up to help him overcome Debbie's arsehole behaviour & boy did he clean her clock. BTB !

I'm not 100% sure exactly where you're headed here with these 2 but I've got a sneaky feeling you're looking at some kind of reconciliation, hell I hope not. Debbie does nothing to kindle any kind of remorse or good feeling for her from me, so that's a bonus point to your great writing by making me feel negative thoughts about her. However, I've got to admit that Bill's not my favourite person either, in fact thinking about it there's nobody in this story that I really like a great deal... hmmmmmmm. Wonder why. 4 ****

She's not your wife nor is she your best friend's wife. She's a flawed individual like ALL of us. And she's fictional flawed character in a particularly well written story. Sit back and enjoy the ride. When it's over I'll be able to go back to my life but in the meantime I intend to enjoy Dan's efforts here.

"He'd never know about all the parties, the campus events, where tall, slim men danced with her and rubbed their hard cocks all over her pussy, felt her breasts and left her so wet she had to retreat into bathrooms to finger herself to quick, messy climaxes.

"It would have been so damned easy to slip out to cars, or into the shadows, lower her panties and let them pound her into unending orgasms. But she hadn't. She'd been the good wife. She'd never tell her loving husband about the men she'd let get her hot and wet and then denied sex to"

She's delusional - she let's other men man-handle her to the point where she has to get herself off, keeps it a secret from her husband, and thinks she's "the good wife" because she din't fuck them?

never another story.

This chapter you showed she had actually been a cheap slut since her teens. I don't think you're heading there but, he is truly better off without her. She thinks of men as penises....she's a tramp.

0=0

As she slid out of her 2010 Nissan 370Z...

A 2010 Nissan in 2005 - that would be a neat trick, (~grin)

Best part of Chapter 2 is the scenes of Debbie and Lew. It does really show you the whole problem she has with her husband Bill Maitland, (and in a Movie, you would go to the trial scene, and then the gym). I would like to see this series as a play or movie...

She talks about how good a wife she is and half the fucking city pinches her ass and tits. Seriously she hits on her husbands attorney... Thats a hoe not a whore...

Just . . . Damn!

(The comment is cumulative.)

He is a prosecutor, his daughter was raped, and mommy "talked" to the boy and family? And daddy just let it pass?

"He loves you. I don't."

I can believe emotions this is stirring up in me, I'm not a prude, nor am I stupid but she is a... I don't think even a profanity would be enough.

She makes me embarrassed to be a woman. What a whore.

I love this series of stories. I read through them some time ago. I found them again just recently while browsing for a new story and decided to read them again. They are just as good the second time. Thank you very much. You are the one of the best Literotica authors in my estimation. Hope you are thinking of writing some new stories.

I have to agree with all the others who have commented on Lew's speech to Debbie. I have gone over that scene several times and I think that speech is definitely the best I have ever read on Literotica. It is easily on par with Academy Award winning scripts. I actually try to say the speech out loud to see if I can impart the emoional impact I can hear in my mind. Unfortunately, I'm not a train actor and I fall short, but I do hear it in my mind...I'm just not sure what actor I would cast in Lew's role to get the perfect delivery....

Characters are all very well constructed. Bill definitely grows throughout the story. Debbie doesn't grow as much, but seems to start to at the end. And Lew better watch out for Norman!

Lew's speech about Bill was epic! Bill may have let himself go but there are still people who see the good in him. I like how Bill has grown since the first chapter. He's getting his life back in order and he is going to be better than before.

Debbie is still spinning her wheels using her sexuality like she has this almighty power over men. They aren't dazzled they see her as the slut she is and hit it and quit it. Glad Lew didn't add him name to her list of victims.

Chapter 5A is pretty good too. They all are. I have come back and re-read this chapter though because I think that Lew's speech to Debbie about who Bill really is as person and a human being was some of the best writing that I have ever read anywhere.

Very deep character development. I see a lot of growth in Bill, but still find Debbie to be a self-centered slut using her beauty to get what she wants. I hope we see her grow into someone that is somewhat likeable.

The only mistake I've seen is when refering to a 2010 Nissan 370z when the year is 2005.

Keep writing. Loving it.

I was thinking about Hollywood director, Frank Capra, and his early movie success "It Happened One Night (1934)." Clark Gable played the leading men in the story in which Gable was a reporter who falls in love with the brat daughter of a rich old man. She get on Gable's nerves with her many complaints so Gable takes her over his knee and gives her an old fashioned spanking. Bill should do the same to Debbie. Do it in a public setting and have his favorite reporter, Cameron, taker a picture of his spanking her over his knee and have the picture with a legend saying something like State's Attorney William Maitland straightening out a matter the old fashioned way with his loving and faithful wife Debra. Debbie would enjoy that way he handled her. RAG

I've been wondering why there haven't been any other good LV stories lately.

Now the reason is clear - most of the better LV authors have been busy commenting on this one :-)

Some people thinks, wives of busy people are entitled to cheat. Wives of husbands who are no more good looking, have privileged to humiliate them in public.

And slowly dying of marriage is just another bullshit. According to Bill (who has been telling the story) marriage was not dead, If the person who is telling the story is not honest than who you would believe. When marriage is really dead it is from both ends. If the truth to be told on the basis of What ever we have seen so far assuming bill never lied to readers, Debbie never tried approach him,if going to bar, parties and dance is marriage for Debbie then she should not have married in first place. Even if Debbie assumed their marriage to be dead, she took her time to heal while dropping bomb on Bill. Which is always true in case of most of the woman, they never leave one rope until they got another, Always safe. does not matter who gets hurt. becasue of woman like her many men ends up ruining thier own lives.

According to you people when after leaving the position after five years of serving President must face a divorce, or cheating wife. Or if husband got injured or no longer attractive he must be dumped. Does vows mean anything to you, better and worse, forsake all others etc.

Wow... things are getting nasty, lets try and be civil, can we?

Onlytheloneylove & Size14shoe, lets look at all the chapters as a whole. not just separate quotes and statments. I can see where the first couple of chapters would leave you to draw your conclusions. But... aside from Debbies statements that she has tried to entice and motivate her husband, how true are they?

I had doubts from the start. Aside from the fact he is a lawyer and prosecutor, and he would enjoy hollywoods version of his job. We see Bills thoughts of his wife from the start, how attractive she seems to him. Debbie is a confident and outgoing woman, and Bill does not seem like an wifebeater or abusive person, no one has even hinted that, even

his children are insulting to him. Stop and think about it? How hard has she really tried to change him? A gorgeous wife, like her, did she ever get naked and say, "Damn it Bill, if your not going to get in shape and use this body, lets divorce now so I can have a sex life." I do believe that she has said something to him before, but how hard has she really tried. She has kept alot of secrets from her husband, hers and her children's. If she was desperate for Bills attention, she could just let Bill know about the attention she gets from all the men that hit on her and grope her. Jealousy would be a powerful motivator, (if her version of the facts is true.) No Way! As we see from the last chapter as her thoughts tell us, she does not want all the attention to stop. I personally believe that she never had actual sex with Doug, but what she did, was way out of acceptable behavior. She should have tried to divorce before she did anything, that would be the adult and honest thing to do, (if the real truth is as she has told everyone.)

Debbie is an attention junkie. She needs to feel desired by all the males around her. As her thoughts reveal she is dismissive of any females around and derogatory of males as helpless because of her glorious chest and beauty. My own personal belief is Debbie had no intention of divorce, or actual sex with Doug. Circumstance and Bills reactions forced the issues. All the emails and flirting are just her way of feeling desired and keeping the attention coming. Otherwise hunky Doug would get frustrated and give up. Debbie had to portray to Doug that her life was miserable and he had a hope of getting her. From the last chapter, Debbie recounts her times with Norm, (the casanova partner, who all the women fall for.) She has no problem keeping him in line and warning him off. But that is someone in Bills social circle and not her safe college circle. I believe Debbie would have milked Doug for all the attention she could get, then broke it off, before she succumbed. Her anger and spite is what drove her to actually have the affair and her way of punishing Bill. How else can you explain her attitude and vindictive diatribes. If her emails and words were the truth, she would actually be alot more compassionate to her love of all those years before.

Only and Size, you have taken Bills admittance that he was too busy and absent to his family as the foremost reason in all the problems. I see it as Bill honestly looking at himself and his life and accepting his own faults, however much he was actually at fault, or even if she kept things that way to excuse and justify things in her own mind. From what we have seen in their thoughts, who has been honest and who hasn't?

Well... that's just my view of things. If I am way off base or not. I believe and I think most agree here, that none of her actions are justified. If her words and thoughts were accurate and she was unhappy in her marriage. She should have left first before she started any type of relationship.

Opinions are like assholes... right? and this one is mine.

Gus

OMG, the amount of bullshit spewing from the two idiots; onlytheloneylove & the IQ master- size 14 phil is horrendous. After Harry has commented on it 11 times, one would think [hope anyway] that "onlythe idiot" would comprehend the basic form of written language. Get a clue dude!

No, but you are the only one who seems to care, go lick some ass somewhere.

Am I the only one who thinks that Bill watching re-runs on cable until 11p.m. is a problem in the marriage?

Am I the only one who noticed Bill calling Debbie an Associate Professor in Chapter 1?

Rehnquist wrote:

"More importantly for the story, the tension is maintained. Without tension, none of us would give a shit."

I agree, the fact that the tension is maintained from chapter to chapter shows us what a great writer DQS1 is.

I also like the fact that some of the characters in "The last goodbye" are in this story too (the mot obvious example being Lew).

And then there is the discussions in the comments area, LOVELY!

This story is fascinating. I agree with the precious commenter that one of the 2 main problems in the Debbie-Bill marital relationship was Bill's absence from home, and when he was home that he was there only in body - his mind/brain still being at work. Debbie was able to take Bill's behavior for 10 years but by then she'd reached her 30's and heading for the terrible "40's." True, she had memories of her with Bill and their happy days pre-marital and marital; but Debbie really needed attention, actually a lot of it like she had had in college. She decided to start going out with friends a few nights a week; by this she got attention, which included the physical kind from men at the night clubs. These men where strong, controlling in the way they danced and handled her, all of which she liked from men; they told her she was very beautiful. Then, Debbie began to carefully study Bill. She noticed that he was getting the old age spread and she observed that his cock appeared to be smaller, and he was less capable of withstanding sexual sessions with her. Their marriage was over and all she needed was the courage to tell him so. What she had against him from the past 7-8 years (NOT their first 10 years) was Bills lack of communication and his dying libido. The couple never seriously talked with each other about the problems until it was too late. No professional help was considered. Doug came into the picture; and Debbie filed for divorce after the Friday night fight.

A second subject of comment concerns Debbie's status as a faculty member at NFU. She was 39 and still an assistant professor which is not in itself unusual. She should have talked with the chairpersons of her department about possible advancement to associate professor with tenure but there's no evidence she did. Instead she became the mentor to a younger faculty member, Doug Baker. What her actual duties as his mentor were are not spelled out since these probably had nothing directly to do with the story. Then came the awards night and the famous fight on the campus lawn. Bill started the fight motivated by Debbie and Doug's behavior during the awards nights activities. As expected, Bill lost the fight to the much bigger, stronger and younger Doug; Doug was even a boxer of Olympic caliber. However, Bill did win the fight emotionally both in Debbie's mind, and in his. The underdog won! How could Debbie dispute this? Finally enters President Myers who saw everything including the kissing between Debbie and Doug. Bill started the fight; Debbie and Doug both tried to talk Bill into leaving campus and go home.

Now both Debbie and Doug are sure that President Myer is going have them removed from the NFU faculty. I don't think that this is a sure thing. Firstly, neither of them started the fight or kept it going. All they did was kiss and that alone is no crime. President Myer may write letters supporting dismissals but all that would do is result in the foundation of a academic faculty committee to examine the matter. Doug and Debbie have done nothing against university rules on campus grounds. There are insufficient grounds for dismissal or transfer of either of them to another Florida state university campus. Certainly it is improper for a married faculty member to be kissing a single man who is not her husband - especially at a university function in front of a thousand people. But this incident was something that probably would only result in Debbie and Doug receiving letters of warning stating that no more proper behavior of this sort would be tolerated. RAG

I think I know where the story is going. I won't tell but the hint's are there in the story. You need to re-read it. How do I know? I was in a situation somewhat similiar to this.

As to fault it was both of their's. There are many way's to cheat in a marriage and it isn't just about sex. They didn't communicate with each other. This just happens to be a key in a successful marriage. Obviously money wasn't a problem and according to both of them they had 10 good years. I'm not even sure that sex was the problem. You don't have to have sex all the time to have a good marriage. What they lost in my opinion was the closeness after the first 10 years was the closeness. Hugs, kisses, special touch's, and being there for each other can accomplish that without physical sex. They had lost it.

There is still more to this than meets the eye and the hint is in the story.

Well done DQS1

Ohio pointed out, and HDK agreed, that DQS is making Debby the cliche LW slut wife character. I disagree. Postscriptor pointed out, more accurately I believe, that she appears to be going through a mid-life crisis. To that I would add one irrefutable point: Men hit their sexual peaks at 19-23 and women at 37-42. Debby is right in the middle, and she has not been getting any. Add to this a mid-life crisis, perhaps brought on by her increasing and at home unfulfilled sexual needs, and she is ripe for an affair. At the same time, though, she's now beginning to realize the gravity of her actions in that both her marriage has been slaughtered and her fuck buddy has disappeared. Thus, though still sexually charged, Lew has drawn her focus back to reality and consequences. And the very end--where she didn't tell Bill about Lew's threats though, unbeknownsnt to her, Bill already knew--indicates she's finally getting her head out of her ass. Thus, I still think there's complexity here. More importantly for the story, the tension is maintained. Without tension, none of us would give a shit.

As to a few other comments, there would be absolutely nothing improper about Lew meeting with Debby outside the presence of Debby's attorney PROVIDED, as here, Debby's attorney consented to such communications. This happens in my practice, albeit infrequently and never where so much would be at stake. Also, Lew's actions are actually the way most attorney's practice: What the client wants is his or her decision, but how to get there is the attorney's sole decision. After all, that's why you hire an attorney, even if you are an attorney: You need both objectivity and the expertise the attorney offers on accomplishing the client's goals. What Lew did do wrong, though, is that he arguably committed exortion. Still, it makes for great reading and, as a lawyer, it's nice to see one of us portrayed as the hero!

"I presume that you are referring to the fifteenth century crack pot "philosopher" Spinoza, who trafficked in "hyperbole", double speak, and exaggeration to baffle with bullshit, and confuse academia, even today, while they think they are being dazzled by brilliance. Is that the "Spinoza of which you refer??????????"

You have a different Spinoza I suspect. The one I referred to lived in the 17th century in the Netherlands, was one of the greatest intellects of his age and wrote "The Ethics" which is probably as far as from being hyperbole, etc, as one could get. It is however a book that rewards careful reading and thought, and leaves many unwilling to do the work necessary to understand what he is saying. You would enjoy what he had to say I suspect--his views on habit and other topics you have discussed in this forum closely mirror your own thinking.

Cheers. :)

People have asked so here's the latest on "married." I just submitted 3A, about 13,000 words, a few minutes ago (9 p.m.) - so it should post on wednesday 6/16 or thursday 6/17. hopefully. it's part of a fairly tightly plotted three part (maybe 4) arc that will lead to something that a lot of readers have been asking for since the first chapter.

I presume that you are referring to the fifteenth century crack pot "philosopher" Spinoza, who trafficked in "hyperbole", double speak, and exaggeration to baffle with bullshit, and confuse academia, even today, while they think they are being dazzled by brilliance.

Is that the "Spinoza of which you refer??????????

good writing good characters.. mmmm not really. You really try to make everything as realistic as possible and it is besides Debbie. if she was mean , calculating and selfish so far, now you make her furthermore a walking nymphomaniac, directed just by her cunt and boobs. this is possible for man and woman in certain situations but not 24 hours/seven days/52 weeks a year. so there has to be either an explanation or correction to this or you have to turn her into a stripper , escort/prostitute or pornstar in the next chapter. because if I put you the barrel of a rifle in your mouth , I swear you rather piss in your pants before you get wet of exitement and thats exactly what lew did. but at the end of there meeting she was horny as hell ??????? the rest was exellent eventhough I can't see where this should go. and where the erotic point is? take your time with the plot development, it is worth all the time you need. thanks for writing.

may be keeping track of when it is safe to go after Debbie and is willing to sic Myra on Bill to distract him. Powerful people are devious, and Edwards may have been looking to add Debbie to his stable, while Debbie thinks this would be a great humiliation for forcing her to give up alimony. Next will be to add Lew to her stable as soon as he finds out about Mona, and Bill's divorce is final. Then she will go after the young ASA that Bill besmeerched by taking the final argument. Debbie cannot help but be vindictive about her life plans being upset. Eventually Bill will take the last private practice offer and relocate, while Debbie continues to lay waste to the male population of the Southeaster United States. He will have no choice because Debbie figures that her reputation is toast and Bill's should be too. He has to relocate to save his sanity, being constantly reminded of what a playtoy she has become.

waiting for your comments, and please post the chapter soon.

I don't think he intended to ever publish the emails. Debbie played into his hands by trying to sexually manipulate the situation. When that didn't work she was off her game and didn't realize that the threat was a bluff. Bill never said that Lew couldn't bluff; only that he couldn't publish the emails. It was a gamble by Lew that would have blown up in his face if she just said no deal.

Now Debbie is the one on a downward spiral. The next step will be when her department Chair tells her she will never make full professor. How she hits bottom and what she does to right herself will drive the rest of the story.

Great job author. I now like The Last Goodbye more now that I've seen another side of Lew.

I thought the phone exchange between Debbie and Bill's secretary, Cheryl, was funny (a little humor) when Cheryl told Debbie that Myra Martinez phoned Human Resources and indicated that she wished to be notified when Bill's divorce became final. Well, perhaps Myra did want to know for our own reasons involving her socializing with Bill; this is what Debbie thought and it was the reason for her anger including her high adrenaline level that evening she visited Will at Hurly's Gym. But it is also possible that Myra was calling for her boss, Edwards, who wanted to know this date because he wished to wait until Bill was free of the distraction of a divorce to ask him if he would consider becoming the State Attorney General as he (Edwards) was considering a run for governor.

RAG

This answered some questions. And now everyone wonders where you will be taking it. So if you say the next installment will be even better? I can't wait.

I still think Debbie is a bitch! And a juvenilistic bitch at that! Her being a professor is just a joke! But lets see what you do with her character in the next installment. It looks like she is having some realizations in her life that are some serious character flaws. And those of Bills too!

Kudos again!

Thanks for writing!

I thought I wasn't going to do this, but here goes. Bill will get his libido back with Mr. Big's secretary. Good for you Bill. Bill is not getting back together with Debbie. Debbie is going to suffer. Those emails are going to be seen by her kids. But in the end, she is going to end up with a husband who is better in tune with her needs, Mr. Big. I don't understand the point of all the arguments. Bill killed this marriage. He knows it too. Debbie has no defense for, and she apologized for, not having the strength to divorce him before she began to run around on him. They are both at fault. But most of all their lives just led them in different directions. They've been incompatible for years. If DSQ can revive this relationship in any credible way, he should begin writing vampire stories, because it would be like raising the dead.

It is repetitive and the wife is as low life as you can get, going down down down.

It is great that you are always a truthspeaker, and guard your truthspeaking so vigourously. Unfortunately, I have suffered from what you have called the "deceptive weakness"of exaggeration on an odd occasion, especially in the heat of a emotionally charged private moment. I appreciate your Aristotelean approach, but as Spinoza might also say, there are always occasions when our reason can be overcome by passion.

The answer to your question is no. Bill is a professional word smith and would never get into the "HABIT" of using hyperbole as it would be too easy to slip when under stress and really screw up.

As to whether I ever use hyperbole, the answer is no because of the same reason. My business Is as a professional observer and reporter of facts and conditions observed thus I must guard against using exaggeration, untruths, and hyperbole at all times as a protection.

Other people may use this deceptive weakness in their character, but for some of us that use truth as a way of livelihood, it must be guarded at all costs, thus we must be forever on guard.

The key word is "HABIT".

Thank you for your reply, Vietvet. I think you are probably right that: " No good lawyer who goes before a jury would use "hyperbole as it would get him laughed out of court." However, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Bill's comment concerning sexual issues with his wife--in which the word "never" was used--take place in his capacity as a private citizen in a conversation having nothing to do with a courtroom? Why wouldn't Bill use hyperbole as a private citizen? I do. Do you?

Jesus people. Get some lives!!! Its a damn story!!!

Hey DQS1. Seems like you have a talent. Fun story to follow. Nice watching someone elses misery rather than our own. Wish I didn't know people a lot like you are portraying here.

Do your stuff. It's fun to watch you grow the characters. Your driving your audience crazy.

Gotta say though, the best part is reading some of the idiotic comments.

Dear Harry,

Re Lew, blackmail, etc: I take it that the bear-roar we all heard (rather than an expected counter-argument) means that we can consider Lew to be in some potentially deep water.

Re gambling/porn/work: I apologize for apparently setting up a strawman for one of your arguments. However, you have to look at what your interlocutor has to work with. The argument you presented was sketchy at best, and I interpreted it as best I could. I apologize for getting it wrong, whatever you intended it to be. If you want me to avoid setting up a strawperson, set up your argument instead. It is hard to argue when the fragments you offer are meant to be divined like something from the Delphic Oracle. And as your annoyance from your last post made clear, the Harry Oracle is just too hard for me to decipher!

Re Cheating and Intentionality: Is your claim Harry that intentionality is the basis for determining whether cheating has occurred or not? I just want to be clear what you are arguing for here, before we continue on.

Re Key Issue: “Key issue you fail to see is HOW A SHE REACTED TO BILL'S OVER WORK.” I think I see that that is an issue Harry, but I see it as just one amongst many KEY issues raised by this story. For example, one could add the key issue of Bill's cluelessness with regards to his family and home-life. Or his lack of reaction to what was happening at home when it was presented to him by his wife at the time? You also “see” these issues. I think they are just as important even if you do not.

Hi Mousse9. Thank you for your thoughtful reply and for taking the time to read my prior submissions. You are right. I do hold a complex view of human nature. I will grant immediately that Bill could still love his wife "in his own way," and that his obssessional love for his job just tends to/does overwhelm his love for his family and wife. Then again, I have also argued that Debbie could still love her husband (even as many feel this to be impossible given her actions). So both outcomes are possible I think.

We seem to have some agreement that both act ruthlessly with the other when their perceived interests are at stake. The distinction that you offer between "threatening to do" and "actually doing" is a valid one. It is just that in this case, I think Bill would have been willing to go all the way on that one. Granted, it is speculation.

Finally, what would show us that "love has left the building?" In my view, the opposite of love is not hate. One is still fixated on the other, so it is still very possible to have both love and hate for a person, since one is still fixated on the Other. The opposite of love is indifference. So, we will know when love is gone (for sure) when either one doesn't care about what the other does or is and when there is no longer a sustained emotional/thinking response concerning that person. The actions and thoughts of Debbie shows she isn't there yet. Bill's actions, are murkier for me, in terms of his feelings, which are more shrouded where Debbie is concerned. I see more indifference with him (but that is my interpretation of what I read; others see it differently). I see the wounded pride, the jealousy, the righteous anger, guilt, etc. and combinations therein, so, we need more from the author to get a clearer picture of what is going on!!!.

As for brain eating ... :)

Now dear you are grasping at straws from the straw men which have been so far blown away.

"Hyperbole", root word "HYPER", being used by Bill is a far stretch as Bill is a prosecuting attorney, and quite successful as it turns out, and the idea of Bill using :hyperbole is proprieties.

No good lawyer who goes before a jury would use "hyperbole as it would get him laughed out of court.

I truly love the comment section, it almost always entertains me more than the stories. I will admit, I am usually on the opposite side of Harry, (maybe - 60-40). However, I have thought that Harry was right from the start of this one. But, I enjoy watching the debates... as each chapter has come out it gets plainer and more obvious... size and only cannot be serious in their position, they just like to poke the bear with a sharp stick! (continue to goad harry, just to get a reaction.) This chapter should have settled the debate. In case they actually do believe their argument. I will put my 2 cents in.

Debbie agrees to a 'private' talk with Lew. She is smirking and daring Lew, that Bill and he has no proof of any wrong doing on her part. She has told everyone and their brother that it is all in Bills head. Then Lew hands her the emails... she gets so upset that she is sick... why? Its not pictures or video that could humiliate her. It's her own words that she wrote that would prove she has been lying to Bill and everyone about Bill. Now... the terrible Lew, who, 'they' (those in this section), who think he should be prosecuted for his 'blackmail'. Good Luck proving that... 1st, blackmail and threatening are 2 separate things in the eyes of the law. Blackmail has to be proven as getting personal gain from extorting someone. Lew is not personally gaining anything. He is threatening to release evidence. Admittedly against his clients wishes, and that would be the only legal thing he did wrong. A lawyer has to represent and honor their clients wishes and directions, as long as he commits no crimes. The only person who can take him to task is Bill, not Debbie, and that would be through the boards not the courts, well the courts for a civil case after he was found guilty and punished by the bar. Threats are not against the law unless it is of bodily harm or murder. Lew's threat to release evidence that proves she is a liar would be laughed at. 2nd and this the one I really like... just like Debbie sitting there and taunting Lew, "He and you have shit", where is Debbie's proof that Lew said anything of the kind? witness? recording? video?, nope her word against his. as she said 'she doesn't have shit'

True blackmail, the only thing to do is not pay. Why did she give up? Because she lied to everyone about everything, parents, kids, friends, and especially Bill. After signing and reading the emails through, she tracks down Bill and apologizes, not for the intimate lunches and dinners, not for shaving her pussy for her boytoy (who she does not love), not for the kisses she denied doing, and especially not for sneaking her lover into Bill's bed and getting his kids to lie to their father. Her only apology was for lying to him.

For the people who think that DQS has changed Debbie in this chapter from the earlier ones. I do not believe so, I see it as she has always been an attention junkie and men have always provided that with no effort on her part. Her blatant actions in the meeting are a combination of things, she has lost contact with the two people she needed it from, neither Bill or Doug is taking her calls, after that dinner fight, she is not out socializing from work. She is going into withdrawal. Then here she is with a good looking guy she has never gotten a reaction from, and she would like to throw him off balance, because they are opponents at this point. She is just going overboard from frustration and strategy, if there was witnesses or they were out in public, I do not believe she would have been so blatant.

Well thanks DQS, and the debate teams....

Gus

Please post the next chapter quickly because only YOU know what's right/wrong...What will happen next. This debate thing is getting out of hand. Only YOU can stop it by posting the next chapter.

Hi Vietvet, Thank you for your reply. I am not going to change your mind, and that is OK. When you say that words have meaning, I agree with you. "The word never MEANS did not happen in the past." Again I agree, but please consider this: could Bill have engaged in that practice called "hyperbole"? I mean, have you ever indulged yourself in it, in a time of stress? I know I have! So, do my words mean what I say when using hyperbole? Not exactly. I exaggerate. I think this is quite human, and if we factor in the fact that we tend to have VERY selective memories when it comes to injuries we perceive done to us compared with the injuries that we cause others, well, I am not as confident as you about the "never" claim. Never is a very strong claim.

As for the issue you raise: "he was using a debating technique of awarding a small point to the opponent to win a larger point, which was that the conversation was ended." I guess that is one interpretation. I don't think the reading of the text supports it, given that its a rather large point he concedes (I put you and my family second behind my job, and I always will/would). I agree he didn't want to talk to her, but I don't quite see how that constitutes the larger point--rather, it seemed to me to be a logical continuation of the point he had just made concerning the second place nature of his family (and his own hurt at his wife's poor behaviour--words and actions). Like you I await more episodes from the author to help clarify the situation further. Cheers.

in attempt to prove that he is a Bigger moron than anyone else... you wrote"

Harry writes: "The answer is NO. Lew was NOT acting in a legal capacity when he was talking to Debbie. Rread the story again. !!!!! ...................... THAT is why debbie's lawyer was NOT in the room."

I reread the story, and I don't see where Lew said explicitly that this was a non-lawyer type of conversation. Can you find me that quote, please? Is it enough to say--"Hey, let us talk in private?" I would have thought something more formal would be necessary.

No cares what YOU think. You are wrong. periood.

shut the fuck up and deal with it.

".......Anyhow, let us grant Harry's claim for argument's sake. Does it change anything? No....

yes it does.

the fact that your refuse to seee it is NOT my problem. It is yours

*-*-*

this next post of yours shows some obession on your part.

seriously.

"......Harry thinks that Bill loved Debbie. Harry's main argument is that: "There is a difference between .not being there (...not talking the wife in the bedroom ... not connecting to the kids.... ) because you are over worked versus say because you have a Gambling or drug or say a Pornography issue." Drugs and porn can be vehicles of escape and obssession. Why can't work? Harry ASSERTS that they are different, so let us look for some evidence about work obssessional conflicts......"

this is a strawman and not even CLOSE to what I said. I NEVER ever argued that Bill's work obession isnt also a form of escape. It MIGHT be the story doesnt show that at all.

"......So, where does that leave us on this issue? Well, I am not saying that Bill is "married to his job." I am saying he is using it as a form of escape; and isn't that something that people do when they have affairs with people? ......."

what is THAT based on? the shit stains in your shorts??!?!?

".......Harry and ddogfriffen both make the claim that what Bill does is not cheating. Harry claims that it isn't because the job isn't a person, and Bill did not intentionally set out to pull away from Debbie. I don't think the distinctions you want to draw carry much water.........."

of course YOU do not see the distinction... to do so blows your entire argument of of the water. You are DESPERATE to show that ANY reaction by Debbie to Bills' over work and Neglect justifies anything she sais or did or wrote.

"...Second, Harry, you have made it clear a couple of chapters ago, that intentions are not the main focus for responsibility, but "ACTIONS and WORDS" (and thus CONSEQUENCES). Why the change now? ..........."

because I have a brain and you Dont. Bill's actions lead to debbie withdraw from him.... and she lost her attraction to him. THAT was his consequence..... NOT the cheating.

***** the Key issue you fail to see is HOW A SHE REACTED TO BILL'S OVER WORK. *****

you keep raising the same point which I have answered... you may not agree but I DO answer them. but you wont answer mine.

"......Harry, Bill is willing to see it, why aren't you? His words and actions have been consistent on this, since his new-found self-reflection........."

I have said so 11 times in these stories. 11 times. WHY are you still beating a dead horse?

"If Debbie had refused the blackmail, would Lew have published? And if he did, what would that have made Bill look like in your eyes (assuming that you think there is some validity to my view that Bill used Lew to do his dirty work for him)? Ruthless and win at any cost enough?"

To put it short, yes. That is pretty ruthless, but let me get back to you on that later.

You have responded that despite everything that Debbie has done to Bill, she still loves him. I've read the comments you made earlier, especially the one where Harryin VA asked pretty much the same question. What does Debbie have to do, to make you say "Debbie does not love Bill anymore.".

"Short of calmly and methodically stabbing him a dozen times, then eating his brains with a side order of salad (all without emotion I might add), not much... "

I really hope that was meant as a joke.

To get back to the ruthlessness, a comparison. What Bill has done, using the threat of the emails to make Debbie back down from the alimony, does that make you say, "Bill does not love Debbie"? I say he still does love Debbie, despite his ruthlessness towards her right now. To throw your own words back at you, people ARE complex creatures, and Bill doing this does not mean he doesn't love Debbie anymore. What he will NOT accept is being kicked while lying down.

Same as with Debbie's lying, cheating, the dinner confrontation, restraining order and the alimony, Bill's ruthlessness does not mean he does not still love her.

And to be honest, the list of ruthless things I just mentioned of what Debbie did, she HAS done. Bill was only THREATENING to do it. And since Debbie backed down from the alimony, the emails were not exposed. Who is more ruthless in this case?

From this chapter, we now know that Debbie has pretty much always let other guys cop feels and other things that would not pass the "husband test". That sounds to me like she never had all that much respect for Bill to begin with. She took his love for her for granted, and thought she could get away with everything. That shows disrespect, uncaring for the other's feelings. And the list of stuff I mentioned that she has done to Bill, is disrespect and uncaring magnified a hundred times over.

Since we are speculating now anyway (what with you asking what Bill would've done if Debbie had not backed down), what would Debbie have to do, say or act to prove to you that Debbie does not love Bill anymore? At what point does uncaring and disrespect become "Debbie does not love Bill anymore, or she wouldn't have done that"? And please keep it in the realm of possibility, no brain eating.

Words have meaning. The word never MEANS did not happen in the past.

Even though Bill hadn't read the e-mails yet he said the word "NEVER". If he would have meant in the last two years, he would probably used the word "recently" in the statement.

Now we get back to the infamous e-mails. In Debbie's conservations with Dougie she has said that she was slutting around on Bill for at least ten years and did not respect him an she would would go slutting, get turned on teasing her pseudo paramours and go home and masturbate to her fantasies, "NOT GO HOME TO BILL AND HAVE HIM SATISFY HER", so I say "NEVER MEANS NEVER".

Now to the point everyone that disagrees with that point seem to gravitate to, Bill said he was not a good father.

I do not disagree with that statement, because he was too trusting and didn't take control of his family, but in that statement at the end of his talk with Debby, he was using a debating technique of awarding a small point to the opponent to win a larger point, which was that the conversation was ended, he wanted nothing more to do with her, he did not want sympathy from her and she was dismissed from his life and please leave.

HOPEFULLY HE WAS RIGHT IN THAT THOUGHT AND CAN GET ON WITH HIS LIFE, BUT WE ALL KNOW THET dqs1 HAS MUCH MORE OF dEBBIE IN bILLS LIFE BEFORE THE NSTORY ENDS.

dqs1: PLEASE KEEP UP THE GREAT STORY SO i MAY CONTINUE DEBATING AND CALLING NAMES "all in good fun with malice toward none", i DO ENJOY A GOOD DEBATE.

pLEASE: ANOTHER INSTALLMENT WOULD BE NICE.

This story is DQS's masterpiece. He's quite a writer to have gained all the positive attention that he has. I have three comments. First, I believe (from what I read from DQS's story) that Debbie and Bill love one another and a lot. The intensity is about equal from each of the two. Debbie has given us a window into her thoughts by (a) bringing up memories of their first ten years together. An example was the cruise to Alaska. She will never forget that and the love she and Bill shared together then on their 5th webbing anniversary. Also, she certainly must remember that it was Bill that saved her from being raped by the frat boys back at college. He was her hero then and she should never forget that (despite her talking about Bill's bad physical shape). But Debbie also is unsure of herself at this stage in life. She's a middle aged women with two teen age kids and an assistant professorship at one of the Florida State Universities in the field of Business Administration. It's normal to still want to be 22 when your are going on 40. But she's got it bad and can't easily let go of her youth. Bill was a part of that youth, perhaps the most important part of it. The touching and other contact that men made with her does not make her a slut in my estimation. She's a women who believes that her husband has placed her second to his job as a state attorney. She simply does not understand him these last 7 or 8 years; she did understand him their first 10 years of marriage. I see Debbie and Bill becoming close friends and raising two wonderful children.

Second, I feel that Bill needs someone near to him, if not his wife at least a very good women who understands the kind of life he leads as a state attorney. Who better suited to fill that role than Jessica Stephens, a colleague of his, who is herself a state attorney. And Jessica is also a demonstrated supporter of Bills, and has had a date with him in which the two got along quite well. Jessica has some problem with sex as she discussed with bill the night of their date at O'Briens, and I don't know how this fact impacts their relationship. But it would seem to me appropriate if she became Bill's aid whether in his current position or if he moves up to become Attorney General. Bill and Jessica might make a very compatible couple and Bill COULD marry Jessica as she understands what his life is all about.

Regarding Debbie's faculty position. I don't completely know the Florida system of universities. I think that it parallels the California one, which I do know. She has her professorship on one of the many state university campuses in Florida, not the University of Florida. She is an Assistant Professor which tells me she does not have tenure. She can be let go. However, if she has been full time with the state university system for more than (say) 5 years. she may have earned "Continuity of Employment" which is rather similar to tenure and it would help her in retaining her position at NFU. With NFU she should have a retirement plan of her own which includes a savings plan with benefits. RAG

For your benefit pasted below is the 3rd, 4th and 5th paragraph of Chapter 1.

"I had come into our bedroom on a Tuesday night after finishing a "law and order" re-run on cable and was getting ready to take a shower. I tend to watch a lot of cop and lawyer shows. Coals to Newcastle, really.

"I should have gotten enough of that stuff in my day job as an Assistant State Attorney in the Duval County State Attorney's Office. To northerners, that's the same as the District Attorney's Office.. We are the people who prosecute bad guys and put them away when we can. Anyway, I like those kinds of cop shows. Even after 10 years on the job, I still like what I do.

Anyway, Debbie was in bed, lying back on a scrunched up pillow, looking through some travel magazine. She usually brings back a ton of student papers to grade from UNF where she's an associate professor in the College of Business. They generally take a couple to three hours to finish. But she's conscientious and it was 11 p.m. and she was relaxing."

*************************

This 39 yo woman who looks 29 is "relaxing" in bed by herself while Mr. Clean is watching re-runs of cops and robbers on cable TV. When he comes up at 11p.m. to take a shower and get ready for bed, he looks at her and comments TO HIMSELF about her tits and legs and cracks on her about her non-sexy robe.

And we are going to be referred to cites by Harry and others that prove the break-up is caused by Debbie and her slutty behavior. Harry will tell us how what a piece of shit Debbie is for not honoring her husband and his career.

After his shower he brings his flabby, middle-aged ass into the bed room and expects her to "jump his bones." Give me a fucking break. If you think this woman isn't hurt, sad, disillusioned about the prospects for life in the future with this guy, you don't know women. Apparently this had been the order of the day for years. She volunteered to teach a class during the summer. Based on the comment and conversation to do with "when they were married," they hadn't gone on vacation in years,

Debbie's words and actions that night weren't those of a woman who knew she was going to leave her husband for another man or for any other reason. Only after reading her emails one after another did she actually realize how far gone their marriage was. Undividual emails spread over months would not. On the other hand Bills words, actions and way of being after the "when we were married" event, were that of an immature man, not the accomplished State Attorney he was in his career. Giving her the silent treatment, moving out without letting her know he was going -- accompanied with "gotcha" statements to himself were the ways of a very immature man. He may not have been immature but his way sure looked it. I don't fault him for leaving, but after 17 years, one more day would have made no difference.

If the all the men reading this story would imagine the roles were reversed, would we blame ourselves for the marriage break-up? Imagine your being like Lew with six-pack abs and a tight butt going to bed at a reasonable hour -- after supper and 3 hours of work it's still only 10p.m. -- and your fat-slob wife comes up for her shower at 11p.m. after watching soap opera re-runs. Would you be inclined to "jump her bones?" I didn't think so. I couldn't get it up for a mercy fuck.

Chapter 1, fifth paragraph, Bill is describing the "when we were married" scene:

"Anyway, Debbie was in bed, lying back on a scrunched up pillow, looking through some travel magazine. She usually brings back a ton of student papers to grade from UNF where she's an associate professor in the College of Business. They generally take a couple to three hours to finish. But she's conscientious and it was 11 p.m. and she was relaxing."

I keep reading, both in the story and in comments where Debbie is an **assistant professor**. She was an assistant professor's mentor in her capacity of associate professor. When was she demoted? Perhaps she was demoted after the awards dinner but I didn't read that anywhere.

It's these little inconsistencies/contradictions that make commenting on this story like walking in a mine field. No matter what you say, someone can find "proof" that you are WRONG but if you have the time, you can find in the story evidence that the "proof" is incorrect as well.

Debbie and Bill had a "wonderful" marriage early on with zero mention of any cheating -- emotional or physical -- and no mention by Bill or the author of inappropriate behavior. In the absence of any indication -- I don't consider Harry's or Vietvet's "knowing" to be valid evidence -- that Debbie was acting inappropirately, I could see how Debbie was just being stupid, ignorant and a lonely, attention starved woman. Now here comes Chapter 2D where Debbie herself tells how she was totally inappropriate with men long before Dougie came along.

In concert with Debbie's "bragging" about being low-life slut material, Lew "explains" how she could be a low-life slut after all because Bill was so trusting -- never checking on her coming in at all hours from parties -- he didn't want to go to -- drunk and he never once checked her panties for signs of cheating. Convenient of DSQ to provide this "proof" of Debbie having been a slut the whole time she was married.

In this same 5th paragraph posted above, Bill tells us, (Debbie) "usually brings back a ton of student papers to grade..." You don't get much indication that Debbie is out with the girls, out to dinner with Dougie, out getting drunk at faculty parties, 3 or 4 nights a week, from this bit of info. I take my hat off to Harry for being able to see what a slut Debbie was from the git-go. I sure missed it.

How does Lew, a close friend who lives in the same area but hasn't seen Bill in 11 months iirc, knew that Bill hasn't been concerned or checking her panties for another man's cum? Are we to take Lew's assertion to Debbie as the gospel truth?

If this story started with Chapter 2D. and Chapter 1. was a flash-back, I might have a different view of Debbie all along. But alas, all I had to go on was Harry telling me she was 100% WRONG and a poster child for slutty MILFs.

Kelly and Bill Jr. are described as "great kids." I was surprised to find out that lovely Kelly was abusing alcohol at 15 and has been on the pill so her equally wonderful boyfriend who is cheating on her, doesn't knock her up. 14 year old Bill Jr. or BJ as Bill often refers to him, was fucking the neighborhood slut before most boys his age knew what a pussy was. And why in the name of god would parents as hip as Bill and Debbie are suppose to be in their lives call their son, BJ?

This is a highly read and appreciated story without a doubt and I'm as anxious as the any other reader for the next chapter to come out. I know all authors hold back details and facts to keep their stories suspenseful, but is blatant misleading of the reader Kosher? DQS, I'm trusting you have a way out of what is apparently intentional misleading your readers.

Hi Mousse9. Yeah, I think you are right. I think we hold pretty different opinions on this, so not much will come from arguing about it anymore. One question though: If Debbie had refused the blackmail, would Lew have published? And if he did, what would that have made Bill look like in your eyes (assuming that you think there is some validity to my view that Bill used Lew to do his dirty work for him)? Ruthless and win at any cost enough?

"But you didn't answer any of the questions I had about Debbie's "love" for Bill." "Debbie's email correspondence, the lying, the deceit, the dinner confrontation, the restraining order and the alimony, does that sound like "love" to you? Do you think Debbie still loves Bill?"

My apologies Mousse9 for not responding to that question, but in a nutshell, my answer is yes. I don't want to redo the arguments I made earlier, though if you are interested I addressed this issue in too much detail in the comments section to episodes 2B (p2 & 3) and 2C (p3) of this story. My view of human nature allows for complex amalgams of human emotion and that we may not be completely aware of what we actually feel and believe. So, it is possible to love someone while being angry at them, feeling guilty or prideful, and maybe a tad clueless to that mix of emotion. As Pascal says (277) in the Pensées concerning human nature: "The heart has its reasons, which reason does not know." / visited 12 June 2010.

Harry thinks that Bill loved Debbie. Harry's main argument is that: "There is a difference between .not being there (...not talking the wife in the bedroom ... not connecting to the kids.... ) because you are over worked versus say because you have a Gambling or drug or say a Pornography issue." Drugs and porn can be vehicles of escape and obssession. Why can't work? Harry ASSERTS that they are different, so let us look for some evidence about work obssessional conflicts.

Let us agree that Bill chose to over-work himself. He could have had others do a lot of the work--but he was driven to do it himself. He could have chosen to cut back, but he COULDN'T. Why? Because he felt compelled to do this work. Maybe he is a crusading angel of justice. We like that sympathetic interpretation. Alternatively, a quick Google search. I land on Wikipedia (I know I can get better references, but it is late), / visited 12 june 2010: "Experts say the incessant work-related activity masks anxiety, low self-esteem, and intimacy problems. And as with addictions to alcohol, drugs or gambling, workaholics' denial and destructive behavior will persist despite feedback from loved ones or danger signs such as deteriorating relationships. Poor health is another warning sign. Because there's less of a social stigma attached to workaholism than to other addictions, health symptoms can easily go undiagnosed or unrecognized, say researchers." Wow--sounds like Bill before the break-up, doesn't it? So, bdoggriffen, I don't think that Harry forsaked all others. He couldn't foresake his job, anymore than he could foresake himself, since his identity is the job he does (evidence on that below).

So, where does that leave us on this issue? Well, I am not saying that Bill is "married to his job." I am saying he is using it as a form of escape; and isn't that something that people do when they have affairs with people?

Harry and ddogfriffen both make the claim that what Bill does is not cheating. Harry claims that it isn't because the job isn't a person, and Bill did not intentionally set out to pull away from Debbie. I don't think the distinctions you want to draw carry much water. First, since when has being human been a pre-requisite for destructive obssession, escape, deception (self and otherwise). Plenty of other things, animate and inanimate, including ideas, have moved humans to do plenty of pretty crazy, brutal, and ill-advised things that have deeply hurt AND killed other human beings. So, I don't agree with your claim, Harry. Second, Harry, you have made it clear a couple of chapters ago, that intentions are not the main focus for responsibility, but "ACTIONS and WORDS" (and thus CONSEQUENCES). Why the change now?

Bill says to Debbie that: "He made me see something I'd always known but hadn't wanted to admit. This prosecutor thing isn't just a job. It never has been. It's what I am.

"And because it is, it always came ahead of you and our children. I chose to put it ahead of you. I told myself you were being unreasonable, but you weren't. You only wanted what any wife wants -- to be number one in her husband's life. And you haven't been for ten years."

Harry, Bill is willing to see it, why aren't you? His words and actions have been consistent on this, since his new-found self-reflection.

I agree, Bill NEGLECTED his wife. When Debbie emotionally cheats on Bill, she is also NEGLECTED Bill. That is a consequence of her cheating. Bill's neglect is also a consequence of his actions. I call them a form of emotional cheating. You want to say Bill loved his wife. Given what Bill says above--it does not appear to support your claim. You are going to have to help me out on reconciling your view with what you have held in the recent past.

...Lew in the Last Goodbye.

"And on that note--what do you say about Bill's actions after he found out about the emails? Is it really about love or is it about wounded pride? Or both?"

Who says those are mutually exclusive? I'd say that if my wife (hypothetically speaking, I'm not married) of 20 years cheated on me, I'd be devastated emotionally, AND have my pride injured.

It seems we are talking past eachother about the ruthlessness thing.

If Bill is indeed ruthless towards his family, and would do anything to win at all costs, even against them, HOW did he direct his ruthlessness? More specifically here, HOW did he direct his ruthlessness towards Debbie?

By threatening to use the emails IF Debbie goes through with the alimony. She does not, and Lew does NOT use the emails. The threat is a RESPONSE to Debbie's alimony, a shield. Bill is ruthless enough to THREATEN with the emails, so he will not have to pay alimony.

..........Wow, that is SO winning at all costs, isn't it? Not wanting to pay alimony to a cheating (soon-to-be ex) wife?

I've said this before and I seem to keep repeating it, but if Bill really HAD been ruthless, he would've exposed the emails already. And I did not say Bill was innocent (how could he be, with his kind of job?).

As for the "good guy" bit, how does that figure into this? Bill threatens to use the emails of his cheating wife so he won't have to pay alimony to her, that is so very evil, right? Good guys would gladly pay alimony for 20 years to wives who cheated on them!

(I keep thinking, if those emails had not been typed in the first place, if Debbie hadn't cheated in the first place, Bill would not have been able to threaten her with them, because the emails would not exist. And again, if Bill really had been ruthless, he would've exposed the emails already!)

Nitpicking, but you didn't answer any of the questions I had about Debbie's "love" for Bill.

"You assert that Debby tried to get Bills attention. Go back and reread the first chapter." Thank you for your thoughts. Yes Chapter One is not flattering to Debbie, I agree. But, I ask you to reconsider what we have read since then, and incorporate that into the model you have of these two actors' perspectives. Even Bill in 2D tells us he was a lousy husband, for exactly the reasons that Debbie complained about elsewhere (remember the Debbie crying on the bed scene as retold to Bill by his daughter--not an isolated event, I wager). As for "never" jumping Bill's bones, would you consider it possible that the "never" refers to the last couple of years wherein Debbie had just given up? Just a thought. And by the way, why do you privilage Bill's version of the truth over Debbie's version? Is it because Debbie wasn't honest about her emotional involvement with Doug. OK. I think most people wouldn't be honest about that. I don't see that action as being enough to discard Debbie's version of the the dynamics of the relationship, especially since Bill (with some reflection) comes to pretty much the same conclusion.

Harry writes: "The amswer is NO. Lew was NOT acting in a legal capacity when he was talking to Debbie. Rread the story again. !!!!! ...................... THAT is why debbie's lawyer was NOT in the room."

I reread the story, and I don't see where Lew said explicitly that this was a non-lawyer type of conversation. Can you find me that quote, please? Is it enough to say--"Hey, let us talk in private?" I would have thought something more formal would be necessary. Anyhow, let us grant Harry's claim for argument's sake. Does it change anything?

No. Suppose Lew is acting in his capacity as a private citizen, rather than as Bill's lawyer. He has told Debbie that he will publish embarrassing details of her private life to destroy her standing in the community and with her family if she does not agree to withdraw her claim to monies that she is LEGALLY entitled to from her husband. According to / visited 11 June 2010, blackmail in a legal sense is defined as: "The crime involving a threat for purposes of compelling a person to do an act against his or her will, or for purposes of taking the person's money or property." Well, it looks like Lew is blackmailing Debbie in a legal sense. And whether he is doing it in his capacity as a lawyer, or as a private citizen, it is still a crime.

And even if he is a private citizen doing this, it will impact his standing as a lawyer. According to "Ethical Obligations of a Lawyer" by G. Archer, p288, "conviction for a crime that does not directly affect the lawyer's professional character would nevertheless justify disbarment. if it involved moral turpitude." I think a strong case can be made for "moral turpitude" here. And I do remember hearing of cases where lawyers are disbarred in exactly this kind of fashion. Somehow, I am doubting that the Bar Association will feel entirely comfortable with Lew's claim he was acting as a private citizen, since he made his threat in his law offices, with Debbie's lawyer in the next room. Good luck with that one! Also, if it is illegal, then I would highly doubt that many people would think it morally right, especially Bar Associations. Maybe under an ethical description based on care (Gilligan et al), which emphasizes the demands of friendship; but Kantian, Utilitarian, even Judeao-Christian ethical systems would consider this "problematic” (to say the least).

This is one of the truest lines ever written on this board. I realize that someone may have written it before, but DQS1 brings it to life in a way that anyone who has been the experience of losing a spouse to another can understand.

as a wife she was a tramp.

And there we have "it" folks, the most frigging wide spectrum of stupidity all in one comment section. Great and we thought this site was getting rid of these losers. Author - I guess we have you to fault for enticing these pathetic idiots to crawl out from underneath their rocks and be exposed to ultraviolet rays once again. What a shame!

Hay dummy, you need to go back to the start and start reading. You said Debby did nothing wrong.

She cheated lied and deceived her husband, other than that she did nothing wrong, RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.

You said, Bill "became an alcoholic,lazy,and got into a fight" thus he was a bad character and it was his fault.

Lets look at the story. Bill did not get lazy, you don't become a top procurer by being lazy, but working hard. Bill got into the fight after he found out Debby was cheating him and disrespected him in front of her piers at the award dinner and fuck fest. Bill took to the bottle after Debbie gutted him so he could forget the hurt he felt when she told him she no longer loved him. It didn't work so he started to turn it around and the next time he faces Dougie, Dougie will be the one bitch slapped senseless and then dropped like a wet sack of shit.

To onlythelonleylove:

You assert that Debby tried to get Bills attention.

Go back and reread the first chapter where Bill confronts Debby about her shaved pussy, and here I will paraphrase, Debby says, I shaved it for you, and Bill says when were you going to show me your shaved pussy, when you finished reading your book? When you took off your clothes and jumped my bones? by the way when was the last time you jumped my bones? OH YEAH, NEVER. So it appears that Debbie's assertion that she tried to get Bills attention is just another in her string of many lies as she played the slut while building a separate life from Bill,

Now we come to the dear children, who Kelly says tried to avoid Bill at all times because he wouldn't let them run around, drink and get high "DO DRUGS" like their friends, but evidently Debby let this happen and shielded Bill from the truth, and every on says it was Bill not spending time with the dear sweet innocent children. GIVE ME A BREAK, wake up and smell the dope in the air. Oh I know, its all Bills fault for working hard to support his family, and heaven help the poor schlub that actually enjoys his job.

The only mistake I personally see that Bill made was trusting his wife and children to be good citizens, faithful and honest.

To GrumpyGamby:

Sorry about the cheap shot on the age crack, I was just being an ass go get your goat, and evidently it worked.

PS: Feminist= Betty Friedan, Helen Gurley Braun (Eva), Gloria Steinham, Jane Fonda, (ET ALL)

great story! keep them coming!

To all the posters who are surprised that DQS1 has Debbie character turn out to be a Slut wife.-Have you read ANY of DQS1 other stories? In THE LAST GOODBYE the character Mona who is Lew's wife -bangs 40 guys. In THE DREAM WIFE the wife character Holly has weekly one night and short term affairs over the 10 year marriage. DQS1 is going with what he knows-and judging by the amount of comments DSQ1 has a wide reader base.

.............

I also look forward to the outcome. I hope DSQ1 does not just have Bill walk away and "Live Well". This would leave Debbie rewarded for her behaviour-Debbie would get the House, kids, job, Doug-with no real penalty.Karma justice requires something like Doug having sex with Kelly the daughter (in Debbies bed). Doug after all may not be a predator-but Doug is a ego driven oportunist. Doug got to steal the MILF from Hubby, Screw the MILF in hubbys bed-and while Debbie the MILF wouldn't give him her heart (only ass, pussy,mouth) he can still complete the ego Trifectia by bagging the MILFs hot daughter. That would be one proper payback for Debbie. A simple STD on Debbie via Doug would be another.

......................

About the only way I could see DSQ1 getting Debbie/Bill back together would be as one poster suggested -Debbie getting breast cancer and surviving-but loseing "the twins" she is so proud of. Bill would need to cut back work to handle the teen kids and would reconnect with the children. Bills "nice guy/hero mode" would kick in in reaction to Debbie's surgery, chemo, etc. Debbie robbed of her one "asset" that attracts attention may finally "mature" and be able to capitalize/take advantage of Bill better nature.

..................................................

Keep us guessing DQS1-I am enjoying the series.

Vietvet: "Grumpy is a middle aged feminist about the same age as Hillary, Bill's Clinton."

Hillary is nearly 20 years older than me. Now to some, that may seem the "same age" But a woman in her 40s does NOT EVER wish to be considered the "same age" as a woman in her 60s! You, sir, could benefit from this saying: "Google twice post once" And perhaps you should define feminist before we agree to disagree on that one.

Harry, by your standard of logic, if anything in any post isn't accurate, the whole post (and poster for that matter) is suspect. You called me an imbecile, an asshole, a dummy, a dude and a sir.

Since I wont sink to your level, I don't believe anything more needs to be said.

Size 14: Thank you.

And lastly,

Yes Lew could very well be disbarred! He is an officer of the court. You don't get to take that hat off to make things convenient. I think it very telling how the "torch the Bitch" crowd loosens their moral standard when a character they can sympathize with behaves badly. I think it's a healthy progression when those who can only see in black and white slowly develop a sense of gray.

Norm, Lew, and Mona from the Last Goodbye. Lyle and the Carters from Moment of Clarity (in the Last Goodbye) - I enjoy how you weave your characters into other stories.

I know Norm , Lew and Mona were mentioned in last chapter

Where were Lyle and the Carters metioned ? How did I miss it ?

I agree that Bill's commitment to his job and lack of commitment to his family are not the equal of cheating. The way I look at it is that cheating is directly related to breaking the marriage vow of forsaking all others. However, Bill did break another vow that of honoring and cherishing his wife. This became more evident this chapter since we learned how much Debbie tried to get him to change. It just shows that not all marriages are destroyed by a single action. I guess the point of this argument is whether or not there could a reconciliation. For me after this chapter it's harder than ever to imagine a reconciliation whether they were both at fault or not. For me the key issues are the point Lew brought up. Bill deserves someone he could trust. They just weren't right for each other. She is a sex crazed woman who is amazingly shallow and insecure. Considering she is a college professor she seems to get pretty much all of her self esteem from her large breasts. I don't know, but either something must be wrong with her and she's headed for an emotional collapse or DSQ has made some serious miscalculations in order to make the fan base happy. I hope it's not the latter. And one thing I've noticed about DSQ is that he really digs into the emotional turmoil of his characters and how their state of mind is a reflection of the chaos they are living through. Remember back in earlier chapters when Bill seemed like such a complete wimp. Well, now months have gone by and he has moved passed that part of his recovery. Perhaps Debbie is beginning to realize what she has done and now she is starting to fall apart too. Can't wait to find out though.

....."yet you didn't address the central claim I made: Bill is emotionally cheating on his wife. Do you agree? If not, why not?...."

MY ANSWER: Bill was certainly NEGLECTFUL towards debbie and the kids emotionally and Phyically. It is a useful "image" to say Biill was married to his job but its not really accurate. To assert that BILL was emotionally cheating JUST like debbie is to say

1) that his JOB/ career is another person. It isnt.

2) that BILL INTENTIONALLY pulled away from Debbie and his kids.

That is FALSE. What Debbie did was INTENTIONAL as she has admitted to in this chapter. I know you cannot see this but most others can.

*-*-*

....."So, Harry, it is a simple question that I will ask again: Does Bill LOVE HIS WIFE; or put more accurately, did he love his wife BEFORE he found out about the emails, etc?...."

Yes he did. What you dont get and see is that there is a difference with regard to WHY Bill was NOT there . IMO....There is a difference between .not being there (...not talking the wife in the bedroom ... not connecting to the kids.... ) because you are over worked versus say because you have a Gambling or drug or say a Pornography issue.

"......SO, what do we call Bill's actions in neglecting his family and emotionally/physically ignoring his wife? Evidence of Harry Love? Or is it possible for a person's actions to express ambivalence; or, dare I say it, be examples of both love and un-love? Yes Harry, Debbie's cheating is bad, not loving to Bill. I agree. But as I have argued before (and not again) I don't think that Harry Love is a strong enough definition of love. And it doesn't capture mixtures of emotions that include love. Sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on that aspect of human nature.\......"

what you cannot see is that the fact that Bill screwed up in some ways almost as bad as debbie doesnt mean things are "even". You dont see the issue of the KINDs of screw ups...all you see is magnitude.

a major screw up when I am making Frensh toast is burning it. A Major screw up with say a handgun would be to leave it laying about loaded where a Kid could pick it up.

Both things are in their own way a major league screw s up but the NATURE of the mistakes are NOT the same.

Bill is definitely moving on. His focus is on his kids now. He is also quite committed to his workout regimen. He will have a long and distinguished career.

Looking back, Bill has always had a strong sense of right and wrong. That is how he met Debbie. She seems to have forgotten that he was willing to to face down, not just a single person, but a gang of them for someone he really did not know. Was that strange look in her eye after the fight sequence a fleeting reminisence of that Bill she first noticed? He wasn't afraid then and he isn't afraid now. Bill was in private practice for a while, but not as a partner. When he joined the State Attorney's office he had met his calling. He has accomplished much in his relatively short career with the SA's office.

Looking back on Debbie, she was a tease in college. She is still a tease and has been one throughout her marriage. She is still a college tease because she never left college, just changed positions from student to professor. What has she accomplished? She is an assistant professor. Most business professors I know have had a distiguished career in business, or are sought after consultants. Debbie has none of this experience. As for Doug, he would have finished his MBA at 24 if he followed the normal academic pace, and is 29 now. Only five years to make his mark and I would surmise that he spent most of that in academia, because of the number of papers he has published. Again, another character with no real practical experience, but one hell of an ego. Doug has always been the arrogant stud, and like Debbie, has apparently always been a college stud. I think they are two of a kind and would make a perfect couple, because they would truely be into swinging and an open marriage, where everyone just assumed that Bill and Debbie had one. Debbie did a great job of promoting that perception. At first, Debbie did have feelings for Bill, but as time progressed she saw Bill as a convenience and an easy mark to continue with her need for attention until such a time that she could find the right match, Lance4U/Doug.

Bill will continue on with his life and career, and will be suprised at how much he is sought after as a man. Debbie and Doug will marry and live out their life of debauchery because they can. Bill's life will be fulfilling and rich. Debbie and Doug will be outside the norm, but that is what they chose and is what they are. They have each other, but little else. Their circle of friends is already getting smaller and I would expect that later on Doug will run into a younger woman that he will also feel for and will want children. Debbie will already be too old. She will have plenty of sex partners though, because they have some extraordinary plastic surgeons in Florida. The sad part about Debbie is that will be enough. This was really a goodbye, and all Debbie is thinking about is sex.

Looking forward to the next episodes in this great novella.

I see that several readers have posted about this. The amswer is NO

Lew was NOT acting in a legal capacity when he was talking to Debbie.

Rread the story again. !!!!! ...................... THAT is why debbie's lawyer was NOT in the room.

Pay attention folks.

Because they both are shoveling the same bullshit with the same shovel. Both are idiots busy spinning the bullshit.