When We Were Married Ch. 02D

Great soap, but a missed point about our Bill...

Slut-wife: "She stepped back from him and looked him up and down.

"The only thing I'm really pissed off about is that you finally went and started getting back into shape. After our marriage went into the trash. But, I guess, at least, the future Mrs. Maitland will reap the benefits."

What Bill might have said: "Well, I have time now. I had a job and a wife and kids and more of a commute before..."

Good read. One question though. How does one drive a 2010 car when it's 2005? Each part is labeled by the date and time, but right off the bat in one of those said portions, she gets out of a car that's from 5 years in the future.

Characters are amazing, DQS classic. As much as I hate Debbie, Mona is 10 times worse. She's the worst whore on the site. I absolutely loath her. She has no redeeming qualities at all. Flat out narcissistic slut. I'm perpetually pissed that they reconciled. That's the one DQS story I cannot read again, it just pisses me off too much. I gotta take care of my heart.

Have listened to a hundred stories and I've never commented. This one was close to some of my life experiences. Like Bill I do my best to always do the right thing. I've been married three times in my life. The first marriage lasted 4 years we grew apart. The second marriage we were together for about 4 years and we had two children she got hooked on drugs. I got custody of the kids in California in 1982. In 1989 I got married for the third time we were together for 30 years had two more kids. Now I will be single until the day I die and that is my choice. I recommend that every man create a fuck you fund so when you do get divorced you're not financially weak. Whichever one of your parents you trust the most have an account in their name and you're the beneficiary. If you ever need to borrow money from your family you borrow it from that account and you pay it back. Basically pay yourself 10% on every dime that you make put it in that fund when you're my age you'll look at it as the best advice you ever got.

I would still not forgive Debbie for the lies, not communicating that she was breaking away, not communicating her relationship with Doug, the emails, or any of the MULTITUDE of things she SHOULD HAVE been talking to him about. I would STILL give her parents copies of those emails.

Bill should have seen that his relationship with his children was waning, and done something earlier. He should have seen that his relationship with Debbie was also falling apart, and not been so comfortable with it.

Both sides are guilty of helping to destroy the marriage. It takes 2 to tango......

Some closure, some foreshadowing, still its beginning to drag... thanks.

Why is Kelly's assault being taken so lightly?

Still hoping she ends up in a ditch somewhere. Completely selfish narcissistic bitch. Bill still a wimp cuck. "I'll always be there fo you." Seriously??? Still not one character in this story to cheer for. Even the kids are messed up little pricks.

The author is turning the Debbie character into a caricature. Sorry it just doesn’t ring true. A common failure of male writers trying to understand women innermost thoughts, emotions, feelings, etc

I wish I had a friend like Lew . A Free Lawyer is something I have never had .. 4 stars

ok this story is just getting stupid at this point. i havent finished all the pages for this chapter yet and i only finished the first one to be exact but Debbie is waaaaaaay over doing the whole slut thing and like someone else said the author is way too obsessed with dicks. It is slowly going from a pretty decent story to just pure nonsense.

Author is obsessed with dicks. Apparently in this world guys are just rubbing their dicks all over everyone. Women are always checking out bulges. It's weird

Lew is a rock star!!!!

“If he was” is used to refer to things that actually happened, while “if he were” is used to refer to things that may happen.

Despite seeming to be a tramp Debbie covered for him with the kids and managed to raise them well. Still wondering where this will go?

Sometimes, when the love is gone is gone forever. Nobody will be able to fill that void.

Well we finally learn in this part that Debbie is nothing but a piece of meat and she is a slut.

That's all Debbie knows and all she wants from men.

When Bill stopped treating her like a piece of meat (even if his reasons were somewhat his fault) she went to find someone else who would treat her like a piece of meat. Instead of fighting to the death for her marriage as she should have.

Holy shit though. Lew is awesome! Finally Debbie got the wake-up call she needed!

She is a train wreck looking to crash.

seems like Debbie has a constant need to tease beyond acceptable levels just to prove to herself she is sexy, hot, beautiful, etc. Witness no bra for meeting with the lawyers. Really???? how professional

Yeah, she was definitely in the 3 F category. Some woman like men have character and dedication and no how to be faithful and some don't. If you want to screw around why get married? I could never understand that mentality. If you can't live up to your promises don't make them. This story is real life, the author has just changed the names to protect the guilty and the innocent. He is merely writing about what these people are really thinking and how they are dealing with life and all the problems that come with it. Can't remember who said it but I think it's true: "All men live lives of quiet desperation". I always lived one of I live and let live and don't or didn't really care what people thought of me. That changed after a failed marriage and my two girls left me but there I go again feeling sorry for myself and regretting how things turned out but you know we really have no control over life, it just happens. Your born, you live, love, hate and you die. Great story it really depresses me.

holy shit it was getting harder a nd harder to connect with this guy I still think he is a idiot for letting a job own him, deserting his family for that job. at least he figured out that part. him owning his life and making amends to the woman he drove away might be interesting but he's got to grow and she has to overcome the neglect she put up with for a decade this emotional affair bullshit is getting old though

Just another story about a Narcissist woman, and a man who allows his work, to become his reason for existence. I don’t think either one was blameless, but usually in a divorce, it’s not 100% black and white. I think his wife could have been a lot more discreet about her marriage, and ended things with hubby, before moving on. In reality, I think she was too addicted to the “ high” of other men paying attention to her. Here is a public service announcement to all men who are dating, and think they have found “ the one”. If she craves attention from other men, she is not wifey material. Get what you can, and then move on. It’s that simple.

The fact that wifey got her thong in a bunch, when she saw how he had changed, speaks volumes to her shallowness. This was a woman, who the 3 F’s were made for. Find em, fuck em, and forget em. In any case, very realistic story. I gave it 5 stars...

Oops, Forgot Something

I meant to add, when I found out and one way or another, sooner or later I would, Cheryl would be toast with everyone knowing she betrayed a trust. Lew doesn't need to be the only shark in those waters. Signed: BTW

Lew Really Should

Pay attention to what Debbie said about Mona and Norman.

"She got angry all over again. The sorry bastard had the nerve to be angry at her when he'd all but shoved her into another man's bed. He'd never know about all the parties, the campus events, where tall, slim men danced with her and rubbed their hard cocks all over her pussy, felt her breasts and left her so wet she had to retreat into bathrooms to finger herself to quick, messy climaxes.

It would have been so damned easy to slip out to cars, or into the shadows, lower her panties and let them pound her into unending orgasms. But she hadn't. She'd been the good wife. She'd never tell her loving husband about the men she'd let get her hot and wet and then denied sex to." Yep, that's exactly how I'd define someone being "...the good wife." I've never used the word 'slut' in reference to any women I've been involve with although many in society would have used that term liberally. I usually found out either near the end of the relationship or sometime after. I have no problem using it about Debbie, it seems she was before, when and pretty much stayed one the whole marriage, right up to the present time as she documented herself. The good wife my ass, I'll just stop at shallow. Lew opened her eyes to how despicable of a person she really is, has her reexamining her opinion of Bill and now she has to be questioning her feelings about her boy toy the Douche. I know the answer but I still find myself hoping that Lew will follow through with her emails finding there way out there... One mistake she/Q made; during the meeting with Lew, as she was reading the email copies, she was questioning to herself how Bill had gotten them as she deleted each one right away. Obviously not you self-absorbed, cheating cunt. I have rarely seen someone eviserated more effectively in a story than what Lew did to Debbie, it was even sweeter after her attempts to seduce him failed, that had to be a blow to her skanky ego. When it comes down to where the rubber meets the road, the good guys need a Lew to do what they can't. Except for the age difference Liam Neeson would fit the role for me. Signed: BTW

Best chapter of the series.

I could name many chapters in this series that are great and come back to and read just those chapters because I enjoy them, but IMHO, this is the best chapter.

Debbie finally sees what a piece of shit she was for cheating on Bill, and Lew laid it all out for her. Everyone needs a friend like Lew.

second time around and she is realizing a bit about what she has lost. Great writer, I wish I could add more to the story but I lack a any real imagination, that's why I'm a mechanic and you are a writer.

So enjoying this series so far. The author needs to get into Debbie's mindset a bit more and more into what their married life was like. She comes across as quite selfish and almost delusional. She is married to a man whose job is bound to come first it's like being married to a doctor the patients needs always outweigh that of the family. We also need to see how the marriage was did Bill make as much time for his family as he could. His children's lives were obviously affected by his work. The author needs to get into the family dynamics so that the reader gets to see the whole picture and not just what comes across as Debbie being a selfish self centred bitch.

Unfortunately, there are women whose self worth is directly related to he cup size. I am dealing with a girlfriend with that very problem. Beautiful but always unhappy and never content. While reading this it reminded me of one of my truisms of life: "show me the most beautiful woman, and I will show you a man who is tired of fucking her."

I love the character of Lew! absolutely great character arc!

I am not sure if I should continue to read this story. The character of Debbie is awful. Do you as the author believe a womans worth is directly related to her cup size, or is it a mechanism to show how truly shallow the cheating wife is?

The bitch finally seeing what she lost and realizing she could never get it back, What a stupid broad and a professor at that. Just shows even if you have degree it doesn't mean you smart! The writing an story are good and the characters well fleshed out. Hope you don't ruin it in the end.

The story is keeping me coming back for more and more. But, it if this was reality, all i can say is...why didn’t she talk to him a few years before and tell him how the marriage was going down the toilet, and try to re-kindle things with him before it came to the point that it did. But, as I said, that’s reality. If that’s were done, there wouldn’t be a story to tell.

God bless the sharks like Lew. Damn, that was satisfying.

Despite a few charitable gestures, Debbie keeps sinking lower in my estimation.

Which obviously means she's going to come out of this alright.

That you are using your, obviously superior, writing skills to write about two of the most unlikable characters on literotica. The woman is the very definition of a heartless, self-centered slut and the man is a spineless, pussy whipped idiot.

Lew is a great friend and lawyer. Wish I had him in MY divorce!!! Too bad he turns CUCK later...

I wish My Lawyer was as good a friend to me as Lew was to Bill .. Someone should check on Mona for Lew ..

That's all. No redeeming qualities. Just a pair of big tits with a snatch that isn't happy without 8 inches shoved in as far as possible. They don't come any shallower than her.

I read last good bye first. Somehow I want to change my 5* vote after reading this chapter. Mona really needed to be burned after all! :0(

For a marriage to survive both parties need to work together. The same holds true when one is destroyed. No matter how strong the wall of love is it will weaken if one half stops supporting that love. If both people ignore the cracks in the wall it will crumble into rubble.

Back and forth with Debbie

Any redeeming qualities ?

Not all wives let men play with tits and ass grabbing and grinding

Been around a lot of dancing and other things

It happens but I have seen men get told off loudly and in some cases slapped

I have also seen husbands and boyfriends use physical force

We love lew, we love lew,,,, he da man!!!

Now there we have a true friend in Lew, who could call a spade a spade to the disloyal slut Debbie.How did she spend 17 years with a man she didn't cheat on ( other than allowing men to pet her and her tits and rub their their erections on her wet pussy) and still feel she was faithful to him? Debbie is just ruled by her pussy and can't help being a slut!!

Debbie needs to be knocked down a notch or two. No such thing as gold plated pussy or tits. If she cant be faithful shes not worth it imo. No pussy is worth the heartache.

Lew has cast iron balls. Talk about going to the mat for a client.

There is too much dialogue here. This is a typical mistake of writers that impose their own thoughts on their characters. It make the whole story extremely artificial:

"I hate that you found them, and more than that, I hate the way you found them. I don't know if Lew told you, but when he told me, I lost it. I got physically sick. I hated you for letting our marriage go, for not caring for me more than that damned job, but I know you've always loved me in your own way. I thought about what you must have felt, what must have gone through your mind when you read what I'd written about you. I never understood why you left your ring and that bloody note. Not until that moment when I was trying to puke my guts out."

That is BS, people do not talk like that. This is organized thinking of a writer not a talk in real situation. It is artificial to the extreme. Typical of psychobabble style writing, so often around here.

Faculty members in universities do not talk nor behave in the way suggested in this Chapter. I know that. I would also assume that people in district attorneys office or lawyers do not talk this way also. The cursing and innuendos displayed in this Chapter are more typical of rednecks and immature adolescents.

This is one sad piece of writing, portraying accomplished human beings as slaves to their sex organs. People do stupid things and do talk trash sometimes but this writer goes well beyond that. Every faculty member in any university is a researcher, they spend a lot of time on that and their job. They are not rubbing their dicks and pussies into each other. In my decades of work I have never seen anything like that in college events ("parties") between faculty members, I have no idea where this writer dreamed about that, it is so absurdly ridiculous.

This is very poor redneck style garbage chapter, sorry to say that.

Please review Ch 02D, page one, again. The date is July 7, 2005 and Deb is parking her 2010 car.

Don't know what the two of them are thinking. It seems that they might have the correct mindset to hold off the divorce for a while, see how it goes, maybe some counseling. They have each seen where they went wrong, they still love each other even if Debbie won't admit it. Wish I'd had an atty. like Lew!

Debbie comes off as a wanton tramp, used to men falling all over themselves trying to get into her. Bill comes off as a wimp, obsessed with his job. If he was just a smidgen as aggressive and detail conscious at home, the marriage wouldn't be in the sad shape it is. And Debbie can talk about intimate details about her problems with Bill to Doug, when she should be discussing them with Bill. And a woman who is willing to throw in the towel on her marriage over her husband's weight problem is shallow and immature. Does she think she is going to be youthful and beautiful into her golden years? Is she in for a rude awakening. Bill is right about one thing...his job is so demanding that there isn't room for lengthy relationships.

People! People! People! It's only a story. A good story, but only a story. So put away your Cuckphobia/latent homophobia. Just relax and enjoy a good tale.

Only pathetic!!

With a lawyer like Lew, who needs friends? That guy is not just a shark, he's a barracuda, a Great White, and a T Rex all rolled into one. You gotta love a lawyer like that. If he's YOUR lawyer.

There's plenty of blame to go around in this marriage. You have an obligation to keep yourself fit and attractive as you can, which Bill failed to do. You also have an obligation to inform your partner if there's a problem that is jeopardizing your relationship which is what Debbie failed to do. Do you think just because you get a divorce or break off a relationship that the next one won't have its own set of problems? Life...life is solving problems!

This Cunt will fuck anything that moves. There is no way she wasn't fucking other guys. Hell she gets wet when one looks at her. And every time she went out she was letting guys feel her up. You obviously left out what she was doing to them. Of course you have to make Bill the biggest fucking sissy wimp ever. The loser is goign to take the heartless skank slut back by the end and she will continue to cheat but with him ok with it. probably even make him a total fag. This has turned to shit.

She said she had done everything in her power to get Bill to change. But it was she who cutoff sex with Bill. And she could send e-mails to Loverboy, but she couldn't send e-mails to Bill? She really was a bitch and a whore. She was married to Bill for almost 18 years, but never went to the courtroom to watch Bill in action? She was a pitiful excuse for a wife. And we know how greedy she was. And how little respect she had for one of the most powerful men in Florida. I hope he really gets buff and skilled as a boxer.

Where did the words come from for you to write in the wife as a bitch and whore from hell that every reader will hope? I hope you didn't draw from a real life experience.54

"And that kiss?" - And the fact that everyone there accepted you and Doug as a couple and thought of Bill as a willing cuckold!

"Bill had already humiliated me" - And YOU hadn't humiliated him?

"Take my kids away from me in a very real way. To stop me from getting alimony?" - Because you don't deserve alimony!

"I mean, they always feel like they have to be -- careful -- around you." - And is that so bad? They should ALWAYS be careful!

"Eighteen years ago we both thought we were going to be in it for life." - Yeah, and we've seen how THAT turned out!

I still don't buy that "he left her first" crap. I don't care how hard she SAYS she tried to get him in shape, there is ZERO doubt in my mind that if she put her mind (and other things!) to it she could have gotten him to cut back at work and to get himself into shape.

nobody will ever consider this to be harmonius in its nature, TK U MLJ LV NV

"No matter how old or professional or respectable they were, they were all just walking penises." - Boy, it's good to know she has such a high opinion of men! No wonder it was so easy for her to just shit on her marriage!

I love KarenE's comments about how she would dirty dance with other men to the point that she needed to get herself off, doesn't tell her husband, yet thinks she's a "good wife" because she didn't fuck them! And how she "tried" to get Bill to get into better shape, yet she supposedly has this "power" over men, but can't get her own husband, who LOVES her to change enough to keep her from cheating! It's painfully obvious that she's an attention whore, and even if her husband DIDN'T work long hours, and was a romantic hunk,she would still be doing the same sort of things! Okay, MAYBE she wouldn't be as susceptible to seduction by a younger guy, but then again she would find some other reason: his job is so BORING, he's not on the same intellectual level, we've all seen it dozens of times before.

"Bill would probably be in jail after killing somebody." - So, the damned flabby MIDDLE-AGED Bill does have some balls? You would think that she thought so from her demeaning description of him!

"They could afford to be virtuous, because nobody but their husbands wanted them." - Wow, she doesn't TOO much of an ego problem, does she?

"And worse of all, dammit, her tits and her body had never gotten to him." - Maybe because he is a FAITHFUL spouse! I realize that's an alien concept to her!

"She knew her nipples were sticking out like some whore looking for action." - Interesting choice of words! Freudian slip, maybe?

"I have a lot of fine qualities, not all of which are immediately visible." - Unlike Debbie, who has few fine qualities which aren't immediately visible!

She claims to have tried to get him to the gym, but failed. Again, this is the same woman who claims to be able to turn any man into a panting puppy at her feet with the crook of her little finger!

"Those were my private, my personal-" - Yeah, WAY too personal for a MARRIED woman to be sending to a male colleague!

"a woman getting ready to walk out of a marriage where she felt trapped and unloved." - SHE was unloved?

"He's their father, Lew. Even if we really hated each other I could never keep him away from them." - Once again citing KarenE: Wasn't there the little matter of a restraining order?

"He would never go behind my back, even if Mona was willing. And she never will be." - I think Bill would have said the same about Debbie.

"telling him secrets that she had never told her husband" - And therein is the nub of the problem - yes, Bill was clueless, yes, he was married to his job, but when she is telling OTHER men secrets that she doesn't share with her husband she has crossed the line.

"Did the fact that somebody loved you entitle them to keep you in chains" - Gee, I'm sorry that she consider marriage to a man who loves her, supported her and their children, to being "in chains"!

"She knew it and had to admit it because she realized what she'd feel if she discovered that he had been doing the same thing." - At least SOME honesty from her! A refreshing change from the cheaters who DO have sex and claim, "Oh, it was just sex, it's YOU I love.".

"And poor Bill probably couldn't even lift one of those udders." - LOL, she puts down women whose boobs don't compare to hers, but as soon as hers aren't the biggest the other woman is cow and her tits are udders. And she doesn't even see the irony!

I find it hard to believe that it took her so long to recognize Bill. Yes, he's in better shape and he's shaved his head, but they were married over 20 years!

That should be engraved in stone some where. It's so true, some wounds you can still feel after 35 years, but the scars keep them from bleeding your heart's blood all over the floor whenever you remember. At first a little bit of hate feels so good filling the hole where love was, but after a time, indeference grows the scars.

DHL

Debbie had been portrayed as an intelligent and skilled professor, rather than as a walking set of breasts.

Gripping story. Great exploration of the different facets of the relationship and how this came to pass. Things are rarely black and white and you have represented that really well. The desire not to be trapped in a hollow relationship, looking for a way out, the guilt and regret about doing something about it. Nicely done.

You gto me going with this chapter. I find myself not wanting to put it down. I can't wait to see what's next.

"He's their father, Lew. Even if we really hated each other I could never keep him away from them."

Um, do the words "restraining order" ring a bell?

Great story & writing so far - can't wait for the next Ch. Hope I'm ready for it.

Well you made her out to be even more of a castrating bitch in this chapter.

Quotes fro early in the story:

Thursday July 7, 2005

My name is William Maitland...

...

As she slid out of her 2010 Nissan 370Z...

Bill's being too hard on himself.

Okay, he threw himself too much into the job, but did she ever try to talk to him about it?

And, sure, she tried to push him to get into better shape, but how hard did she really try? Like Lew said, she could get just about any man to do just about anything. Are we to believe that there was nothing she could do (or not do, "wink, wink!") to get him to the gym?

From Lew puncturing Debbie's kelvar coated self assurance and pseudo self-righteousness, to the scene where she stands outside the window and speculates about the distant and yet somehow familiar stranger sweating in the gym, this installment is a tour de force.

Yet Bill's culpability in the demise of their marriage is acknowledged as well. DQS hits every emotional note on the keyboard in this virtuoso literary performance. As a complete story, I prefer 'Separate Vacations' . It gets no sadder then this and yet both parties are wiser and in end analysis, better for having known each other. Their priorities and dreams had irreconcilably diverged

. They both leave each with regrets as to how they parted, but deep in their hearts each know the time to start over had come.

Good old Lewis, he's the man. Bill really needed Lew to step up to help him overcome Debbie's arsehole behaviour & boy did he clean her clock. BTB !

I'm not 100% sure exactly where you're headed here with these 2 but I've got a sneaky feeling you're looking at some kind of reconciliation, hell I hope not. Debbie does nothing to kindle any kind of remorse or good feeling for her from me, so that's a bonus point to your great writing by making me feel negative thoughts about her. However, I've got to admit that Bill's not my favourite person either, in fact thinking about it there's nobody in this story that I really like a great deal... hmmmmmmm. Wonder why. 4 ****

She's not your wife nor is she your best friend's wife. She's a flawed individual like ALL of us. And she's fictional flawed character in a particularly well written story. Sit back and enjoy the ride. When it's over I'll be able to go back to my life but in the meantime I intend to enjoy Dan's efforts here.

"He'd never know about all the parties, the campus events, where tall, slim men danced with her and rubbed their hard cocks all over her pussy, felt her breasts and left her so wet she had to retreat into bathrooms to finger herself to quick, messy climaxes.

"It would have been so damned easy to slip out to cars, or into the shadows, lower her panties and let them pound her into unending orgasms. But she hadn't. She'd been the good wife. She'd never tell her loving husband about the men she'd let get her hot and wet and then denied sex to"

She's delusional - she let's other men man-handle her to the point where she has to get herself off, keeps it a secret from her husband, and thinks she's "the good wife" because she din't fuck them?

never another story.

This chapter you showed she had actually been a cheap slut since her teens. I don't think you're heading there but, he is truly better off without her. She thinks of men as penises....she's a tramp.

0=0

As she slid out of her 2010 Nissan 370Z...

A 2010 Nissan in 2005 - that would be a neat trick, (~grin)

Best part of Chapter 2 is the scenes of Debbie and Lew. It does really show you the whole problem she has with her husband Bill Maitland, (and in a Movie, you would go to the trial scene, and then the gym). I would like to see this series as a play or movie...

She talks about how good a wife she is and half the fucking city pinches her ass and tits. Seriously she hits on her husbands attorney... Thats a hoe not a whore...

Just . . . Damn!

(The comment is cumulative.)

He is a prosecutor, his daughter was raped, and mommy "talked" to the boy and family? And daddy just let it pass?

"He loves you. I don't."

I can believe emotions this is stirring up in me, I'm not a prude, nor am I stupid but she is a... I don't think even a profanity would be enough.

She makes me embarrassed to be a woman. What a whore.

I love this series of stories. I read through them some time ago. I found them again just recently while browsing for a new story and decided to read them again. They are just as good the second time. Thank you very much. You are the one of the best Literotica authors in my estimation. Hope you are thinking of writing some new stories.

I have to agree with all the others who have commented on Lew's speech to Debbie. I have gone over that scene several times and I think that speech is definitely the best I have ever read on Literotica. It is easily on par with Academy Award winning scripts. I actually try to say the speech out loud to see if I can impart the emoional impact I can hear in my mind. Unfortunately, I'm not a train actor and I fall short, but I do hear it in my mind...I'm just not sure what actor I would cast in Lew's role to get the perfect delivery....

Characters are all very well constructed. Bill definitely grows throughout the story. Debbie doesn't grow as much, but seems to start to at the end. And Lew better watch out for Norman!

Lew's speech about Bill was epic! Bill may have let himself go but there are still people who see the good in him. I like how Bill has grown since the first chapter. He's getting his life back in order and he is going to be better than before.

Debbie is still spinning her wheels using her sexuality like she has this almighty power over men. They aren't dazzled they see her as the slut she is and hit it and quit it. Glad Lew didn't add him name to her list of victims.

Chapter 5A is pretty good too. They all are. I have come back and re-read this chapter though because I think that Lew's speech to Debbie about who Bill really is as person and a human being was some of the best writing that I have ever read anywhere.

Very deep character development. I see a lot of growth in Bill, but still find Debbie to be a self-centered slut using her beauty to get what she wants. I hope we see her grow into someone that is somewhat likeable.

The only mistake I've seen is when refering to a 2010 Nissan 370z when the year is 2005.

Keep writing. Loving it.

I was thinking about Hollywood director, Frank Capra, and his early movie success "It Happened One Night (1934)." Clark Gable played the leading men in the story in which Gable was a reporter who falls in love with the brat daughter of a rich old man. She get on Gable's nerves with her many complaints so Gable takes her over his knee and gives her an old fashioned spanking. Bill should do the same to Debbie. Do it in a public setting and have his favorite reporter, Cameron, taker a picture of his spanking her over his knee and have the picture with a legend saying something like State's Attorney William Maitland straightening out a matter the old fashioned way with his loving and faithful wife Debra. Debbie would enjoy that way he handled her. RAG

I've been wondering why there haven't been any other good LV stories lately.

Now the reason is clear - most of the better LV authors have been busy commenting on this one :-)

Some people thinks, wives of busy people are entitled to cheat. Wives of husbands who are no more good looking, have privileged to humiliate them in public.

And slowly dying of marriage is just another bullshit. According to Bill (who has been telling the story) marriage was not dead, If the person who is telling the story is not honest than who you would believe. When marriage is really dead it is from both ends. If the truth to be told on the basis of What ever we have seen so far assuming bill never lied to readers, Debbie never tried approach him,if going to bar, parties and dance is marriage for Debbie then she should not have married in first place. Even if Debbie assumed their marriage to be dead, she took her time to heal while dropping bomb on Bill. Which is always true in case of most of the woman, they never leave one rope until they got another, Always safe. does not matter who gets hurt. becasue of woman like her many men ends up ruining thier own lives.

According to you people when after leaving the position after five years of serving President must face a divorce, or cheating wife. Or if husband got injured or no longer attractive he must be dumped. Does vows mean anything to you, better and worse, forsake all others etc.

Wow... things are getting nasty, lets try and be civil, can we?

Onlytheloneylove & Size14shoe, lets look at all the chapters as a whole. not just separate quotes and statments. I can see where the first couple of chapters would leave you to draw your conclusions. But... aside from Debbies statements that she has tried to entice and motivate her husband, how true are they?

I had doubts from the start. Aside from the fact he is a lawyer and prosecutor, and he would enjoy hollywoods version of his job. We see Bills thoughts of his wife from the start, how attractive she seems to him. Debbie is a confident and outgoing woman, and Bill does not seem like an wifebeater or abusive person, no one has even hinted that, even

his children are insulting to him. Stop and think about it? How hard has she really tried to change him? A gorgeous wife, like her, did she ever get naked and say, "Damn it Bill, if your not going to get in shape and use this body, lets divorce now so I can have a sex life." I do believe that she has said something to him before, but how hard has she really tried. She has kept alot of secrets from her husband, hers and her children's. If she was desperate for Bills attention, she could just let Bill know about the attention she gets from all the men that hit on her and grope her. Jealousy would be a powerful motivator, (if her version of the facts is true.) No Way! As we see from the last chapter as her thoughts tell us, she does not want all the attention to stop. I personally believe that she never had actual sex with Doug, but what she did, was way out of acceptable behavior. She should have tried to divorce before she did anything, that would be the adult and honest thing to do, (if the real truth is as she has told everyone.)

Debbie is an attention junkie. She needs to feel desired by all the males around her. As her thoughts reveal she is dismissive of any females around and derogatory of males as helpless because of her glorious chest and beauty. My own personal belief is Debbie had no intention of divorce, or actual sex with Doug. Circumstance and Bills reactions forced the issues. All the emails and flirting are just her way of feeling desired and keeping the attention coming. Otherwise hunky Doug would get frustrated and give up. Debbie had to portray to Doug that her life was miserable and he had a hope of getting her. From the last chapter, Debbie recounts her times with Norm, (the casanova partner, who all the women fall for.) She has no problem keeping him in line and warning him off. But that is someone in Bills social circle and not her safe college circle. I believe Debbie would have milked Doug for all the attention she could get, then broke it off, before she succumbed. Her anger and spite is what drove her to actually have the affair and her way of punishing Bill. How else can you explain her attitude and vindictive diatribes. If her emails and words were the truth, she would actually be alot more compassionate to her love of all those years before.

Only and Size, you have taken Bills admittance that he was too busy and absent to his family as the foremost reason in all the problems. I see it as Bill honestly looking at himself and his life and accepting his own faults, however much he was actually at fault, or even if she kept things that way to excuse and justify things in her own mind. From what we have seen in their thoughts, who has been honest and who hasn't?

Well... that's just my view of things. If I am way off base or not. I believe and I think most agree here, that none of her actions are justified. If her words and thoughts were accurate and she was unhappy in her marriage. She should have left first before she started any type of relationship.

Opinions are like assholes... right? and this one is mine.

Gus

OMG, the amount of bullshit spewing from the two idiots; onlytheloneylove & the IQ master- size 14 phil is horrendous. After Harry has commented on it 11 times, one would think [hope anyway] that "onlythe idiot" would comprehend the basic form of written language. Get a clue dude!

No, but you are the only one who seems to care, go lick some ass somewhere.

Am I the only one who thinks that Bill watching re-runs on cable until 11p.m. is a problem in the marriage?

Am I the only one who noticed Bill calling Debbie an Associate Professor in Chapter 1?

Rehnquist wrote:

"More importantly for the story, the tension is maintained. Without tension, none of us would give a shit."

I agree, the fact that the tension is maintained from chapter to chapter shows us what a great writer DQS1 is.

I also like the fact that some of the characters in "The last goodbye" are in this story too (the mot obvious example being Lew).

And then there is the discussions in the comments area, LOVELY!

This story is fascinating. I agree with the precious commenter that one of the 2 main problems in the Debbie-Bill marital relationship was Bill's absence from home, and when he was home that he was there only in body - his mind/brain still being at work. Debbie was able to take Bill's behavior for 10 years but by then she'd reached her 30's and heading for the terrible "40's." True, she had memories of her with Bill and their happy days pre-marital and marital; but Debbie really needed attention, actually a lot of it like she had had in college. She decided to start going out with friends a few nights a week; by this she got attention, which included the physical kind from men at the night clubs. These men where strong, controlling in the way they danced and handled her, all of which she liked from men; they told her she was very beautiful. Then, Debbie began to carefully study Bill. She noticed that he was getting the old age spread and she observed that his cock appeared to be smaller, and he was less capable of withstanding sexual sessions with her. Their marriage was over and all she needed was the courage to tell him so. What she had against him from the past 7-8 years (NOT their first 10 years) was Bills lack of communication and his dying libido. The couple never seriously talked with each other about the problems until it was too late. No professional help was considered. Doug came into the picture; and Debbie filed for divorce after the Friday night fight.

A second subject of comment concerns Debbie's status as a faculty member at NFU. She was 39 and still an assistant professor which is not in itself unusual. She should have talked with the chairpersons of her department about possible advancement to associate professor with tenure but there's no evidence she did. Instead she became the mentor to a younger faculty member, Doug Baker. What her actual duties as his mentor were are not spelled out since these probably had nothing directly to do with the story. Then came the awards night and the famous fight on the campus lawn. Bill started the fight motivated by Debbie and Doug's behavior during the awards nights activities. As expected, Bill lost the fight to the much bigger, stronger and younger Doug; Doug was even a boxer of Olympic caliber. However, Bill did win the fight emotionally both in Debbie's mind, and in his. The underdog won! How could Debbie dispute this? Finally enters President Myers who saw everything including the kissing between Debbie and Doug. Bill started the fight; Debbie and Doug both tried to talk Bill into leaving campus and go home.

Now both Debbie and Doug are sure that President Myer is going have them removed from the NFU faculty. I don't think that this is a sure thing. Firstly, neither of them started the fight or kept it going. All they did was kiss and that alone is no crime. President Myer may write letters supporting dismissals but all that would do is result in the foundation of a academic faculty committee to examine the matter. Doug and Debbie have done nothing against university rules on campus grounds. There are insufficient grounds for dismissal or transfer of either of them to another Florida state university campus. Certainly it is improper for a married faculty member to be kissing a single man who is not her husband - especially at a university function in front of a thousand people. But this incident was something that probably would only result in Debbie and Doug receiving letters of warning stating that no more proper behavior of this sort would be tolerated. RAG

I think I know where the story is going. I won't tell but the hint's are there in the story. You need to re-read it. How do I know? I was in a situation somewhat similiar to this.

As to fault it was both of their's. There are many way's to cheat in a marriage and it isn't just about sex. They didn't communicate with each other. This just happens to be a key in a successful marriage. Obviously money wasn't a problem and according to both of them they had 10 good years. I'm not even sure that sex was the problem. You don't have to have sex all the time to have a good marriage. What they lost in my opinion was the closeness after the first 10 years was the closeness. Hugs, kisses, special touch's, and being there for each other can accomplish that without physical sex. They had lost it.

There is still more to this than meets the eye and the hint is in the story.

Well done DQS1

Ohio pointed out, and HDK agreed, that DQS is making Debby the cliche LW slut wife character. I disagree. Postscriptor pointed out, more accurately I believe, that she appears to be going through a mid-life crisis. To that I would add one irrefutable point: Men hit their sexual peaks at 19-23 and women at 37-42. Debby is right in the middle, and she has not been getting any. Add to this a mid-life crisis, perhaps brought on by her increasing and at home unfulfilled sexual needs, and she is ripe for an affair. At the same time, though, she's now beginning to realize the gravity of her actions in that both her marriage has been slaughtered and her fuck buddy has disappeared. Thus, though still sexually charged, Lew has drawn her focus back to reality and consequences. And the very end--where she didn't tell Bill about Lew's threats though, unbeknownsnt to her, Bill already knew--indicates she's finally getting her head out of her ass. Thus, I still think there's complexity here. More importantly for the story, the tension is maintained. Without tension, none of us would give a shit.

As to a few other comments, there would be absolutely nothing improper about Lew meeting with Debby outside the presence of Debby's attorney PROVIDED, as here, Debby's attorney consented to such communications. This happens in my practice, albeit infrequently and never where so much would be at stake. Also, Lew's actions are actually the way most attorney's practice: What the client wants is his or her decision, but how to get there is the attorney's sole decision. After all, that's why you hire an attorney, even if you are an attorney: You need both objectivity and the expertise the attorney offers on accomplishing the client's goals. What Lew did do wrong, though, is that he arguably committed exortion. Still, it makes for great reading and, as a lawyer, it's nice to see one of us portrayed as the hero!

"I presume that you are referring to the fifteenth century crack pot "philosopher" Spinoza, who trafficked in "hyperbole", double speak, and exaggeration to baffle with bullshit, and confuse academia, even today, while they think they are being dazzled by brilliance. Is that the "Spinoza of which you refer??????????"

You have a different Spinoza I suspect. The one I referred to lived in the 17th century in the Netherlands, was one of the greatest intellects of his age and wrote "The Ethics" which is probably as far as from being hyperbole, etc, as one could get. It is however a book that rewards careful reading and thought, and leaves many unwilling to do the work necessary to understand what he is saying. You would enjoy what he had to say I suspect--his views on habit and other topics you have discussed in this forum closely mirror your own thinking.

Cheers. :)

People have asked so here's the latest on "married." I just submitted 3A, about 13,000 words, a few minutes ago (9 p.m.) - so it should post on wednesday 6/16 or thursday 6/17. hopefully. it's part of a fairly tightly plotted three part (maybe 4) arc that will lead to something that a lot of readers have been asking for since the first chapter.

I presume that you are referring to the fifteenth century crack pot "philosopher" Spinoza, who trafficked in "hyperbole", double speak, and exaggeration to baffle with bullshit, and confuse academia, even today, while they think they are being dazzled by brilliance.

Is that the "Spinoza of which you refer??????????

good writing good characters.. mmmm not really. You really try to make everything as realistic as possible and it is besides Debbie. if she was mean , calculating and selfish so far, now you make her furthermore a walking nymphomaniac, directed just by her cunt and boobs. this is possible for man and woman in certain situations but not 24 hours/seven days/52 weeks a year. so there has to be either an explanation or correction to this or you have to turn her into a stripper , escort/prostitute or pornstar in the next chapter. because if I put you the barrel of a rifle in your mouth , I swear you rather piss in your pants before you get wet of exitement and thats exactly what lew did. but at the end of there meeting she was horny as hell ??????? the rest was exellent eventhough I can't see where this should go. and where the erotic point is? take your time with the plot development, it is worth all the time you need. thanks for writing.

may be keeping track of when it is safe to go after Debbie and is willing to sic Myra on Bill to distract him. Powerful people are devious, and Edwards may have been looking to add Debbie to his stable, while Debbie thinks this would be a great humiliation for forcing her to give up alimony. Next will be to add Lew to her stable as soon as he finds out about Mona, and Bill's divorce is final. Then she will go after the young ASA that Bill besmeerched by taking the final argument. Debbie cannot help but be vindictive about her life plans being upset. Eventually Bill will take the last private practice offer and relocate, while Debbie continues to lay waste to the male population of the Southeaster United States. He will have no choice because Debbie figures that her reputation is toast and Bill's should be too. He has to relocate to save his sanity, being constantly reminded of what a playtoy she has become.

waiting for your comments, and please post the chapter soon.

I don't think he intended to ever publish the emails. Debbie played into his hands by trying to sexually manipulate the situation. When that didn't work she was off her game and didn't realize that the threat was a bluff. Bill never said that Lew couldn't bluff; only that he couldn't publish the emails. It was a gamble by Lew that would have blown up in his face if she just said no deal.

Now Debbie is the one on a downward spiral. The next step will be when her department Chair tells her she will never make full professor. How she hits bottom and what she does to right herself will drive the rest of the story.

Great job author. I now like The Last Goodbye more now that I've seen another side of Lew.

I thought the phone exchange between Debbie and Bill's secretary, Cheryl, was funny (a little humor) when Cheryl told Debbie that Myra Martinez phoned Human Resources and indicated that she wished to be notified when Bill's divorce became final. Well, perhaps Myra did want to know for our own reasons involving her socializing with Bill; this is what Debbie thought and it was the reason for her anger including her high adrenaline level that evening she visited Will at Hurly's Gym. But it is also possible that Myra was calling for her boss, Edwards, who wanted to know this date because he wished to wait until Bill was free of the distraction of a divorce to ask him if he would consider becoming the State Attorney General as he (Edwards) was considering a run for governor.

RAG

This answered some questions. And now everyone wonders where you will be taking it. So if you say the next installment will be even better? I can't wait.

I still think Debbie is a bitch! And a juvenilistic bitch at that! Her being a professor is just a joke! But lets see what you do with her character in the next installment. It looks like she is having some realizations in her life that are some serious character flaws. And those of Bills too!

Kudos again!

Thanks for writing!

I thought I wasn't going to do this, but here goes. Bill will get his libido back with Mr. Big's secretary. Good for you Bill. Bill is not getting back together with Debbie. Debbie is going to suffer. Those emails are going to be seen by her kids. But in the end, she is going to end up with a husband who is better in tune with her needs, Mr. Big. I don't understand the point of all the arguments. Bill killed this marriage. He knows it too. Debbie has no defense for, and she apologized for, not having the strength to divorce him before she began to run around on him. They are both at fault. But most of all their lives just led them in different directions. They've been incompatible for years. If DSQ can revive this relationship in any credible way, he should begin writing vampire stories, because it would be like raising the dead.

It is repetitive and the wife is as low life as you can get, going down down down.

It is great that you are always a truthspeaker, and guard your truthspeaking so vigourously. Unfortunately, I have suffered from what you have called the "deceptive weakness"of exaggeration on an odd occasion, especially in the heat of a emotionally charged private moment. I appreciate your Aristotelean approach, but as Spinoza might also say, there are always occasions when our reason can be overcome by passion.

The answer to your question is no. Bill is a professional word smith and would never get into the "HABIT" of using hyperbole as it would be too easy to slip when under stress and really screw up.

As to whether I ever use hyperbole, the answer is no because of the same reason. My business Is as a professional observer and reporter of facts and conditions observed thus I must guard against using exaggeration, untruths, and hyperbole at all times as a protection.

Other people may use this deceptive weakness in their character, but for some of us that use truth as a way of livelihood, it must be guarded at all costs, thus we must be forever on guard.

The key word is "HABIT".

Thank you for your reply, Vietvet. I think you are probably right that: " No good lawyer who goes before a jury would use "hyperbole as it would get him laughed out of court." However, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Bill's comment concerning sexual issues with his wife--in which the word "never" was used--take place in his capacity as a private citizen in a conversation having nothing to do with a courtroom? Why wouldn't Bill use hyperbole as a private citizen? I do. Do you?

Jesus people. Get some lives!!! Its a damn story!!!

Hey DQS1. Seems like you have a talent. Fun story to follow. Nice watching someone elses misery rather than our own. Wish I didn't know people a lot like you are portraying here.

Do your stuff. It's fun to watch you grow the characters. Your driving your audience crazy.

Gotta say though, the best part is reading some of the idiotic comments.

Dear Harry,

Re Lew, blackmail, etc: I take it that the bear-roar we all heard (rather than an expected counter-argument) means that we can consider Lew to be in some potentially deep water.

Re gambling/porn/work: I apologize for apparently setting up a strawman for one of your arguments. However, you have to look at what your interlocutor has to work with. The argument you presented was sketchy at best, and I interpreted it as best I could. I apologize for getting it wrong, whatever you intended it to be. If you want me to avoid setting up a strawperson, set up your argument instead. It is hard to argue when the fragments you offer are meant to be divined like something from the Delphic Oracle. And as your annoyance from your last post made clear, the Harry Oracle is just too hard for me to decipher!

Re Cheating and Intentionality: Is your claim Harry that intentionality is the basis for determining whether cheating has occurred or not? I just want to be clear what you are arguing for here, before we continue on.

Re Key Issue: “Key issue you fail to see is HOW A SHE REACTED TO BILL'S OVER WORK.” I think I see that that is an issue Harry, but I see it as just one amongst many KEY issues raised by this story. For example, one could add the key issue of Bill's cluelessness with regards to his family and home-life. Or his lack of reaction to what was happening at home when it was presented to him by his wife at the time? You also “see” these issues. I think they are just as important even if you do not.

Hi Mousse9. Thank you for your thoughtful reply and for taking the time to read my prior submissions. You are right. I do hold a complex view of human nature. I will grant immediately that Bill could still love his wife "in his own way," and that his obssessional love for his job just tends to/does overwhelm his love for his family and wife. Then again, I have also argued that Debbie could still love her husband (even as many feel this to be impossible given her actions). So both outcomes are possible I think.

We seem to have some agreement that both act ruthlessly with the other when their perceived interests are at stake. The distinction that you offer between "threatening to do" and "actually doing" is a valid one. It is just that in this case, I think Bill would have been willing to go all the way on that one. Granted, it is speculation.

Finally, what would show us that "love has left the building?" In my view, the opposite of love is not hate. One is still fixated on the other, so it is still very possible to have both love and hate for a person, since one is still fixated on the Other. The opposite of love is indifference. So, we will know when love is gone (for sure) when either one doesn't care about what the other does or is and when there is no longer a sustained emotional/thinking response concerning that person. The actions and thoughts of Debbie shows she isn't there yet. Bill's actions, are murkier for me, in terms of his feelings, which are more shrouded where Debbie is concerned. I see more indifference with him (but that is my interpretation of what I read; others see it differently). I see the wounded pride, the jealousy, the righteous anger, guilt, etc. and combinations therein, so, we need more from the author to get a clearer picture of what is going on!!!.

As for brain eating ... :)

Now dear you are grasping at straws from the straw men which have been so far blown away.

"Hyperbole", root word "HYPER", being used by Bill is a far stretch as Bill is a prosecuting attorney, and quite successful as it turns out, and the idea of Bill using :hyperbole is proprieties.

No good lawyer who goes before a jury would use "hyperbole as it would get him laughed out of court.

I truly love the comment section, it almost always entertains me more than the stories. I will admit, I am usually on the opposite side of Harry, (maybe - 60-40). However, I have thought that Harry was right from the start of this one. But, I enjoy watching the debates... as each chapter has come out it gets plainer and more obvious... size and only cannot be serious in their position, they just like to poke the bear with a sharp stick! (continue to goad harry, just to get a reaction.) This chapter should have settled the debate. In case they actually do believe their argument. I will put my 2 cents in.

Debbie agrees to a 'private' talk with Lew. She is smirking and daring Lew, that Bill and he has no proof of any wrong doing on her part. She has told everyone and their brother that it is all in Bills head. Then Lew hands her the emails... she gets so upset that she is sick... why? Its not pictures or video that could humiliate her. It's her own words that she wrote that would prove she has been lying to Bill and everyone about Bill. Now... the terrible Lew, who, 'they' (those in this section), who think he should be prosecuted for his 'blackmail'. Good Luck proving that... 1st, blackmail and threatening are 2 separate things in the eyes of the law. Blackmail has to be proven as getting personal gain from extorting someone. Lew is not personally gaining anything. He is threatening to release evidence. Admittedly against his clients wishes, and that would be the only legal thing he did wrong. A lawyer has to represent and honor their clients wishes and directions, as long as he commits no crimes. The only person who can take him to task is Bill, not Debbie, and that would be through the boards not the courts, well the courts for a civil case after he was found guilty and punished by the bar. Threats are not against the law unless it is of bodily harm or murder. Lew's threat to release evidence that proves she is a liar would be laughed at. 2nd and this the one I really like... just like Debbie sitting there and taunting Lew, "He and you have shit", where is Debbie's proof that Lew said anything of the kind? witness? recording? video?, nope her word against his. as she said 'she doesn't have shit'

True blackmail, the only thing to do is not pay. Why did she give up? Because she lied to everyone about everything, parents, kids, friends, and especially Bill. After signing and reading the emails through, she tracks down Bill and apologizes, not for the intimate lunches and dinners, not for shaving her pussy for her boytoy (who she does not love), not for the kisses she denied doing, and especially not for sneaking her lover into Bill's bed and getting his kids to lie to their father. Her only apology was for lying to him.

For the people who think that DQS has changed Debbie in this chapter from the earlier ones. I do not believe so, I see it as she has always been an attention junkie and men have always provided that with no effort on her part. Her blatant actions in the meeting are a combination of things, she has lost contact with the two people she needed it from, neither Bill or Doug is taking her calls, after that dinner fight, she is not out socializing from work. She is going into withdrawal. Then here she is with a good looking guy she has never gotten a reaction from, and she would like to throw him off balance, because they are opponents at this point. She is just going overboard from frustration and strategy, if there was witnesses or they were out in public, I do not believe she would have been so blatant.

Well thanks DQS, and the debate teams....

Gus

Please post the next chapter quickly because only YOU know what's right/wrong...What will happen next. This debate thing is getting out of hand. Only YOU can stop it by posting the next chapter.

Hi Vietvet, Thank you for your reply. I am not going to change your mind, and that is OK. When you say that words have meaning, I agree with you. "The word never MEANS did not happen in the past." Again I agree, but please consider this: could Bill have engaged in that practice called "hyperbole"? I mean, have you ever indulged yourself in it, in a time of stress? I know I have! So, do my words mean what I say when using hyperbole? Not exactly. I exaggerate. I think this is quite human, and if we factor in the fact that we tend to have VERY selective memories when it comes to injuries we perceive done to us compared with the injuries that we cause others, well, I am not as confident as you about the "never" claim. Never is a very strong claim.

As for the issue you raise: "he was using a debating technique of awarding a small point to the opponent to win a larger point, which was that the conversation was ended." I guess that is one interpretation. I don't think the reading of the text supports it, given that its a rather large point he concedes (I put you and my family second behind my job, and I always will/would). I agree he didn't want to talk to her, but I don't quite see how that constitutes the larger point--rather, it seemed to me to be a logical continuation of the point he had just made concerning the second place nature of his family (and his own hurt at his wife's poor behaviour--words and actions). Like you I await more episodes from the author to help clarify the situation further. Cheers.

in attempt to prove that he is a Bigger moron than anyone else... you wrote"

Harry writes: "The answer is NO. Lew was NOT acting in a legal capacity when he was talking to Debbie. Rread the story again. !!!!! ...................... THAT is why debbie's lawyer was NOT in the room."

I reread the story, and I don't see where Lew said explicitly that this was a non-lawyer type of conversation. Can you find me that quote, please? Is it enough to say--"Hey, let us talk in private?" I would have thought something more formal would be necessary.

No cares what YOU think. You are wrong. periood.

shut the fuck up and deal with it.

".......Anyhow, let us grant Harry's claim for argument's sake. Does it change anything? No....

yes it does.

the fact that your refuse to seee it is NOT my problem. It is yours

*-*-*

this next post of yours shows some obession on your part.

seriously.

"......Harry thinks that Bill loved Debbie. Harry's main argument is that: "There is a difference between .not being there (...not talking the wife in the bedroom ... not connecting to the kids.... ) because you are over worked versus say because you have a Gambling or drug or say a Pornography issue." Drugs and porn can be vehicles of escape and obssession. Why can't work? Harry ASSERTS that they are different, so let us look for some evidence about work obssessional conflicts......"

this is a strawman and not even CLOSE to what I said. I NEVER ever argued that Bill's work obession isnt also a form of escape. It MIGHT be the story doesnt show that at all.

"......So, where does that leave us on this issue? Well, I am not saying that Bill is "married to his job." I am saying he is using it as a form of escape; and isn't that something that people do when they have affairs with people? ......."

what is THAT based on? the shit stains in your shorts??!?!?

".......Harry and ddogfriffen both make the claim that what Bill does is not cheating. Harry claims that it isn't because the job isn't a person, and Bill did not intentionally set out to pull away from Debbie. I don't think the distinctions you want to draw carry much water.........."

of course YOU do not see the distinction... to do so blows your entire argument of of the water. You are DESPERATE to show that ANY reaction by Debbie to Bills' over work and Neglect justifies anything she sais or did or wrote.

"...Second, Harry, you have made it clear a couple of chapters ago, that intentions are not the main focus for responsibility, but "ACTIONS and WORDS" (and thus CONSEQUENCES). Why the change now? ..........."

because I have a brain and you Dont. Bill's actions lead to debbie withdraw from him.... and she lost her attraction to him. THAT was his consequence..... NOT the cheating.

***** the Key issue you fail to see is HOW A SHE REACTED TO BILL'S OVER WORK. *****

you keep raising the same point which I have answered... you may not agree but I DO answer them. but you wont answer mine.

"......Harry, Bill is willing to see it, why aren't you? His words and actions have been consistent on this, since his new-found self-reflection........."

I have said so 11 times in these stories. 11 times. WHY are you still beating a dead horse?

"If Debbie had refused the blackmail, would Lew have published? And if he did, what would that have made Bill look like in your eyes (assuming that you think there is some validity to my view that Bill used Lew to do his dirty work for him)? Ruthless and win at any cost enough?"

To put it short, yes. That is pretty ruthless, but let me get back to you on that later.

You have responded that despite everything that Debbie has done to Bill, she still loves him. I've read the comments you made earlier, especially the one where Harryin VA asked pretty much the same question. What does Debbie have to do, to make you say "Debbie does not love Bill anymore.".

"Short of calmly and methodically stabbing him a dozen times, then eating his brains with a side order of salad (all without emotion I might add), not much... "

I really hope that was meant as a joke.

To get back to the ruthlessness, a comparison. What Bill has done, using the threat of the emails to make Debbie back down from the alimony, does that make you say, "Bill does not love Debbie"? I say he still does love Debbie, despite his ruthlessness towards her right now. To throw your own words back at you, people ARE complex creatures, and Bill doing this does not mean he doesn't love Debbie anymore. What he will NOT accept is being kicked while lying down.

Same as with Debbie's lying, cheating, the dinner confrontation, restraining order and the alimony, Bill's ruthlessness does not mean he does not still love her.

And to be honest, the list of ruthless things I just mentioned of what Debbie did, she HAS done. Bill was only THREATENING to do it. And since Debbie backed down from the alimony, the emails were not exposed. Who is more ruthless in this case?

From this chapter, we now know that Debbie has pretty much always let other guys cop feels and other things that would not pass the "husband test". That sounds to me like she never had all that much respect for Bill to begin with. She took his love for her for granted, and thought she could get away with everything. That shows disrespect, uncaring for the other's feelings. And the list of stuff I mentioned that she has done to Bill, is disrespect and uncaring magnified a hundred times over.

Since we are speculating now anyway (what with you asking what Bill would've done if Debbie had not backed down), what would Debbie have to do, say or act to prove to you that Debbie does not love Bill anymore? At what point does uncaring and disrespect become "Debbie does not love Bill anymore, or she wouldn't have done that"? And please keep it in the realm of possibility, no brain eating.

Words have meaning. The word never MEANS did not happen in the past.

Even though Bill hadn't read the e-mails yet he said the word "NEVER". If he would have meant in the last two years, he would probably used the word "recently" in the statement.

Now we get back to the infamous e-mails. In Debbie's conservations with Dougie she has said that she was slutting around on Bill for at least ten years and did not respect him an she would would go slutting, get turned on teasing her pseudo paramours and go home and masturbate to her fantasies, "NOT GO HOME TO BILL AND HAVE HIM SATISFY HER", so I say "NEVER MEANS NEVER".

Now to the point everyone that disagrees with that point seem to gravitate to, Bill said he was not a good father.

I do not disagree with that statement, because he was too trusting and didn't take control of his family, but in that statement at the end of his talk with Debby, he was using a debating technique of awarding a small point to the opponent to win a larger point, which was that the conversation was ended, he wanted nothing more to do with her, he did not want sympathy from her and she was dismissed from his life and please leave.

HOPEFULLY HE WAS RIGHT IN THAT THOUGHT AND CAN GET ON WITH HIS LIFE, BUT WE ALL KNOW THET dqs1 HAS MUCH MORE OF dEBBIE IN bILLS LIFE BEFORE THE NSTORY ENDS.

dqs1: PLEASE KEEP UP THE GREAT STORY SO i MAY CONTINUE DEBATING AND CALLING NAMES "all in good fun with malice toward none", i DO ENJOY A GOOD DEBATE.

pLEASE: ANOTHER INSTALLMENT WOULD BE NICE.

This story is DQS's masterpiece. He's quite a writer to have gained all the positive attention that he has. I have three comments. First, I believe (from what I read from DQS's story) that Debbie and Bill love one another and a lot. The intensity is about equal from each of the two. Debbie has given us a window into her thoughts by (a) bringing up memories of their first ten years together. An example was the cruise to Alaska. She will never forget that and the love she and Bill shared together then on their 5th webbing anniversary. Also, she certainly must remember that it was Bill that saved her from being raped by the frat boys back at college. He was her hero then and she should never forget that (despite her talking about Bill's bad physical shape). But Debbie also is unsure of herself at this stage in life. She's a middle aged women with two teen age kids and an assistant professorship at one of the Florida State Universities in the field of Business Administration. It's normal to still want to be 22 when your are going on 40. But she's got it bad and can't easily let go of her youth. Bill was a part of that youth, perhaps the most important part of it. The touching and other contact that men made with her does not make her a slut in my estimation. She's a women who believes that her husband has placed her second to his job as a state attorney. She simply does not understand him these last 7 or 8 years; she did understand him their first 10 years of marriage. I see Debbie and Bill becoming close friends and raising two wonderful children.

Second, I feel that Bill needs someone near to him, if not his wife at least a very good women who understands the kind of life he leads as a state attorney. Who better suited to fill that role than Jessica Stephens, a colleague of his, who is herself a state attorney. And Jessica is also a demonstrated supporter of Bills, and has had a date with him in which the two got along quite well. Jessica has some problem with sex as she discussed with bill the night of their date at O'Briens, and I don't know how this fact impacts their relationship. But it would seem to me appropriate if she became Bill's aid whether in his current position or if he moves up to become Attorney General. Bill and Jessica might make a very compatible couple and Bill COULD marry Jessica as she understands what his life is all about.

Regarding Debbie's faculty position. I don't completely know the Florida system of universities. I think that it parallels the California one, which I do know. She has her professorship on one of the many state university campuses in Florida, not the University of Florida. She is an Assistant Professor which tells me she does not have tenure. She can be let go. However, if she has been full time with the state university system for more than (say) 5 years. she may have earned "Continuity of Employment" which is rather similar to tenure and it would help her in retaining her position at NFU. With NFU she should have a retirement plan of her own which includes a savings plan with benefits. RAG

For your benefit pasted below is the 3rd, 4th and 5th paragraph of Chapter 1.

"I had come into our bedroom on a Tuesday night after finishing a "law and order" re-run on cable and was getting ready to take a shower. I tend to watch a lot of cop and lawyer shows. Coals to Newcastle, really.

"I should have gotten enough of that stuff in my day job as an Assistant State Attorney in the Duval County State Attorney's Office. To northerners, that's the same as the District Attorney's Office.. We are the people who prosecute bad guys and put them away when we can. Anyway, I like those kinds of cop shows. Even after 10 years on the job, I still like what I do.

Anyway, Debbie was in bed, lying back on a scrunched up pillow, looking through some travel magazine. She usually brings back a ton of student papers to grade from UNF where she's an associate professor in the College of Business. They generally take a couple to three hours to finish. But she's conscientious and it was 11 p.m. and she was relaxing."

*************************

This 39 yo woman who looks 29 is "relaxing" in bed by herself while Mr. Clean is watching re-runs of cops and robbers on cable TV. When he comes up at 11p.m. to take a shower and get ready for bed, he looks at her and comments TO HIMSELF about her tits and legs and cracks on her about her non-sexy robe.

And we are going to be referred to cites by Harry and others that prove the break-up is caused by Debbie and her slutty behavior. Harry will tell us how what a piece of shit Debbie is for not honoring her husband and his career.

After his shower he brings his flabby, middle-aged ass into the bed room and expects her to "jump his bones." Give me a fucking break. If you think this woman isn't hurt, sad, disillusioned about the prospects for life in the future with this guy, you don't know women. Apparently this had been the order of the day for years. She volunteered to teach a class during the summer. Based on the comment and conversation to do with "when they were married," they hadn't gone on vacation in years,

Debbie's words and actions that night weren't those of a woman who knew she was going to leave her husband for another man or for any other reason. Only after reading her emails one after another did she actually realize how far gone their marriage was. Undividual emails spread over months would not. On the other hand Bills words, actions and way of being after the "when we were married" event, were that of an immature man, not the accomplished State Attorney he was in his career. Giving her the silent treatment, moving out without letting her know he was going -- accompanied with "gotcha" statements to himself were the ways of a very immature man. He may not have been immature but his way sure looked it. I don't fault him for leaving, but after 17 years, one more day would have made no difference.

If the all the men reading this story would imagine the roles were reversed, would we blame ourselves for the marriage break-up? Imagine your being like Lew with six-pack abs and a tight butt going to bed at a reasonable hour -- after supper and 3 hours of work it's still only 10p.m. -- and your fat-slob wife comes up for her shower at 11p.m. after watching soap opera re-runs. Would you be inclined to "jump her bones?" I didn't think so. I couldn't get it up for a mercy fuck.

Chapter 1, fifth paragraph, Bill is describing the "when we were married" scene:

"Anyway, Debbie was in bed, lying back on a scrunched up pillow, looking through some travel magazine. She usually brings back a ton of student papers to grade from UNF where she's an associate professor in the College of Business. They generally take a couple to three hours to finish. But she's conscientious and it was 11 p.m. and she was relaxing."

I keep reading, both in the story and in comments where Debbie is an **assistant professor**. She was an assistant professor's mentor in her capacity of associate professor. When was she demoted? Perhaps she was demoted after the awards dinner but I didn't read that anywhere.

It's these little inconsistencies/contradictions that make commenting on this story like walking in a mine field. No matter what you say, someone can find "proof" that you are WRONG but if you have the time, you can find in the story evidence that the "proof" is incorrect as well.

Debbie and Bill had a "wonderful" marriage early on with zero mention of any cheating -- emotional or physical -- and no mention by Bill or the author of inappropriate behavior. In the absence of any indication -- I don't consider Harry's or Vietvet's "knowing" to be valid evidence -- that Debbie was acting inappropirately, I could see how Debbie was just being stupid, ignorant and a lonely, attention starved woman. Now here comes Chapter 2D where Debbie herself tells how she was totally inappropriate with men long before Dougie came along.

In concert with Debbie's "bragging" about being low-life slut material, Lew "explains" how she could be a low-life slut after all because Bill was so trusting -- never checking on her coming in at all hours from parties -- he didn't want to go to -- drunk and he never once checked her panties for signs of cheating. Convenient of DSQ to provide this "proof" of Debbie having been a slut the whole time she was married.

In this same 5th paragraph posted above, Bill tells us, (Debbie) "usually brings back a ton of student papers to grade..." You don't get much indication that Debbie is out with the girls, out to dinner with Dougie, out getting drunk at faculty parties, 3 or 4 nights a week, from this bit of info. I take my hat off to Harry for being able to see what a slut Debbie was from the git-go. I sure missed it.

How does Lew, a close friend who lives in the same area but hasn't seen Bill in 11 months iirc, knew that Bill hasn't been concerned or checking her panties for another man's cum? Are we to take Lew's assertion to Debbie as the gospel truth?

If this story started with Chapter 2D. and Chapter 1. was a flash-back, I might have a different view of Debbie all along. But alas, all I had to go on was Harry telling me she was 100% WRONG and a poster child for slutty MILFs.

Kelly and Bill Jr. are described as "great kids." I was surprised to find out that lovely Kelly was abusing alcohol at 15 and has been on the pill so her equally wonderful boyfriend who is cheating on her, doesn't knock her up. 14 year old Bill Jr. or BJ as Bill often refers to him, was fucking the neighborhood slut before most boys his age knew what a pussy was. And why in the name of god would parents as hip as Bill and Debbie are suppose to be in their lives call their son, BJ?

This is a highly read and appreciated story without a doubt and I'm as anxious as the any other reader for the next chapter to come out. I know all authors hold back details and facts to keep their stories suspenseful, but is blatant misleading of the reader Kosher? DQS, I'm trusting you have a way out of what is apparently intentional misleading your readers.

Hi Mousse9. Yeah, I think you are right. I think we hold pretty different opinions on this, so not much will come from arguing about it anymore. One question though: If Debbie had refused the blackmail, would Lew have published? And if he did, what would that have made Bill look like in your eyes (assuming that you think there is some validity to my view that Bill used Lew to do his dirty work for him)? Ruthless and win at any cost enough?

"But you didn't answer any of the questions I had about Debbie's "love" for Bill." "Debbie's email correspondence, the lying, the deceit, the dinner confrontation, the restraining order and the alimony, does that sound like "love" to you? Do you think Debbie still loves Bill?"

My apologies Mousse9 for not responding to that question, but in a nutshell, my answer is yes. I don't want to redo the arguments I made earlier, though if you are interested I addressed this issue in too much detail in the comments section to episodes 2B (p2 & 3) and 2C (p3) of this story. My view of human nature allows for complex amalgams of human emotion and that we may not be completely aware of what we actually feel and believe. So, it is possible to love someone while being angry at them, feeling guilty or prideful, and maybe a tad clueless to that mix of emotion. As Pascal says (277) in the Pensées concerning human nature: "The heart has its reasons, which reason does not know." / visited 12 June 2010.

Harry thinks that Bill loved Debbie. Harry's main argument is that: "There is a difference between .not being there (...not talking the wife in the bedroom ... not connecting to the kids.... ) because you are over worked versus say because you have a Gambling or drug or say a Pornography issue." Drugs and porn can be vehicles of escape and obssession. Why can't work? Harry ASSERTS that they are different, so let us look for some evidence about work obssessional conflicts.

Let us agree that Bill chose to over-work himself. He could have had others do a lot of the work--but he was driven to do it himself. He could have chosen to cut back, but he COULDN'T. Why? Because he felt compelled to do this work. Maybe he is a crusading angel of justice. We like that sympathetic interpretation. Alternatively, a quick Google search. I land on Wikipedia (I know I can get better references, but it is late), / visited 12 june 2010: "Experts say the incessant work-related activity masks anxiety, low self-esteem, and intimacy problems. And as with addictions to alcohol, drugs or gambling, workaholics' denial and destructive behavior will persist despite feedback from loved ones or danger signs such as deteriorating relationships. Poor health is another warning sign. Because there's less of a social stigma attached to workaholism than to other addictions, health symptoms can easily go undiagnosed or unrecognized, say researchers." Wow--sounds like Bill before the break-up, doesn't it? So, bdoggriffen, I don't think that Harry forsaked all others. He couldn't foresake his job, anymore than he could foresake himself, since his identity is the job he does (evidence on that below).

So, where does that leave us on this issue? Well, I am not saying that Bill is "married to his job." I am saying he is using it as a form of escape; and isn't that something that people do when they have affairs with people?

Harry and ddogfriffen both make the claim that what Bill does is not cheating. Harry claims that it isn't because the job isn't a person, and Bill did not intentionally set out to pull away from Debbie. I don't think the distinctions you want to draw carry much water. First, since when has being human been a pre-requisite for destructive obssession, escape, deception (self and otherwise). Plenty of other things, animate and inanimate, including ideas, have moved humans to do plenty of pretty crazy, brutal, and ill-advised things that have deeply hurt AND killed other human beings. So, I don't agree with your claim, Harry. Second, Harry, you have made it clear a couple of chapters ago, that intentions are not the main focus for responsibility, but "ACTIONS and WORDS" (and thus CONSEQUENCES). Why the change now?

Bill says to Debbie that: "He made me see something I'd always known but hadn't wanted to admit. This prosecutor thing isn't just a job. It never has been. It's what I am.

"And because it is, it always came ahead of you and our children. I chose to put it ahead of you. I told myself you were being unreasonable, but you weren't. You only wanted what any wife wants -- to be number one in her husband's life. And you haven't been for ten years."

Harry, Bill is willing to see it, why aren't you? His words and actions have been consistent on this, since his new-found self-reflection.

I agree, Bill NEGLECTED his wife. When Debbie emotionally cheats on Bill, she is also NEGLECTED Bill. That is a consequence of her cheating. Bill's neglect is also a consequence of his actions. I call them a form of emotional cheating. You want to say Bill loved his wife. Given what Bill says above--it does not appear to support your claim. You are going to have to help me out on reconciling your view with what you have held in the recent past.

...Lew in the Last Goodbye.

"And on that note--what do you say about Bill's actions after he found out about the emails? Is it really about love or is it about wounded pride? Or both?"

Who says those are mutually exclusive? I'd say that if my wife (hypothetically speaking, I'm not married) of 20 years cheated on me, I'd be devastated emotionally, AND have my pride injured.

It seems we are talking past eachother about the ruthlessness thing.

If Bill is indeed ruthless towards his family, and would do anything to win at all costs, even against them, HOW did he direct his ruthlessness? More specifically here, HOW did he direct his ruthlessness towards Debbie?

By threatening to use the emails IF Debbie goes through with the alimony. She does not, and Lew does NOT use the emails. The threat is a RESPONSE to Debbie's alimony, a shield. Bill is ruthless enough to THREATEN with the emails, so he will not have to pay alimony.

..........Wow, that is SO winning at all costs, isn't it? Not wanting to pay alimony to a cheating (soon-to-be ex) wife?

I've said this before and I seem to keep repeating it, but if Bill really HAD been ruthless, he would've exposed the emails already. And I did not say Bill was innocent (how could he be, with his kind of job?).

As for the "good guy" bit, how does that figure into this? Bill threatens to use the emails of his cheating wife so he won't have to pay alimony to her, that is so very evil, right? Good guys would gladly pay alimony for 20 years to wives who cheated on them!

(I keep thinking, if those emails had not been typed in the first place, if Debbie hadn't cheated in the first place, Bill would not have been able to threaten her with them, because the emails would not exist. And again, if Bill really had been ruthless, he would've exposed the emails already!)

Nitpicking, but you didn't answer any of the questions I had about Debbie's "love" for Bill.

"You assert that Debby tried to get Bills attention. Go back and reread the first chapter." Thank you for your thoughts. Yes Chapter One is not flattering to Debbie, I agree. But, I ask you to reconsider what we have read since then, and incorporate that into the model you have of these two actors' perspectives. Even Bill in 2D tells us he was a lousy husband, for exactly the reasons that Debbie complained about elsewhere (remember the Debbie crying on the bed scene as retold to Bill by his daughter--not an isolated event, I wager). As for "never" jumping Bill's bones, would you consider it possible that the "never" refers to the last couple of years wherein Debbie had just given up? Just a thought. And by the way, why do you privilage Bill's version of the truth over Debbie's version? Is it because Debbie wasn't honest about her emotional involvement with Doug. OK. I think most people wouldn't be honest about that. I don't see that action as being enough to discard Debbie's version of the the dynamics of the relationship, especially since Bill (with some reflection) comes to pretty much the same conclusion.

Harry writes: "The amswer is NO. Lew was NOT acting in a legal capacity when he was talking to Debbie. Rread the story again. !!!!! ...................... THAT is why debbie's lawyer was NOT in the room."

I reread the story, and I don't see where Lew said explicitly that this was a non-lawyer type of conversation. Can you find me that quote, please? Is it enough to say--"Hey, let us talk in private?" I would have thought something more formal would be necessary. Anyhow, let us grant Harry's claim for argument's sake. Does it change anything?

No. Suppose Lew is acting in his capacity as a private citizen, rather than as Bill's lawyer. He has told Debbie that he will publish embarrassing details of her private life to destroy her standing in the community and with her family if she does not agree to withdraw her claim to monies that she is LEGALLY entitled to from her husband. According to / visited 11 June 2010, blackmail in a legal sense is defined as: "The crime involving a threat for purposes of compelling a person to do an act against his or her will, or for purposes of taking the person's money or property." Well, it looks like Lew is blackmailing Debbie in a legal sense. And whether he is doing it in his capacity as a lawyer, or as a private citizen, it is still a crime.

And even if he is a private citizen doing this, it will impact his standing as a lawyer. According to "Ethical Obligations of a Lawyer" by G. Archer, p288, "conviction for a crime that does not directly affect the lawyer's professional character would nevertheless justify disbarment. if it involved moral turpitude." I think a strong case can be made for "moral turpitude" here. And I do remember hearing of cases where lawyers are disbarred in exactly this kind of fashion. Somehow, I am doubting that the Bar Association will feel entirely comfortable with Lew's claim he was acting as a private citizen, since he made his threat in his law offices, with Debbie's lawyer in the next room. Good luck with that one! Also, if it is illegal, then I would highly doubt that many people would think it morally right, especially Bar Associations. Maybe under an ethical description based on care (Gilligan et al), which emphasizes the demands of friendship; but Kantian, Utilitarian, even Judeao-Christian ethical systems would consider this "problematic” (to say the least).

This is one of the truest lines ever written on this board. I realize that someone may have written it before, but DQS1 brings it to life in a way that anyone who has been the experience of losing a spouse to another can understand.

as a wife she was a tramp.

And there we have "it" folks, the most frigging wide spectrum of stupidity all in one comment section. Great and we thought this site was getting rid of these losers. Author - I guess we have you to fault for enticing these pathetic idiots to crawl out from underneath their rocks and be exposed to ultraviolet rays once again. What a shame!

Hay dummy, you need to go back to the start and start reading. You said Debby did nothing wrong.

She cheated lied and deceived her husband, other than that she did nothing wrong, RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.

You said, Bill "became an alcoholic,lazy,and got into a fight" thus he was a bad character and it was his fault.

Lets look at the story. Bill did not get lazy, you don't become a top procurer by being lazy, but working hard. Bill got into the fight after he found out Debby was cheating him and disrespected him in front of her piers at the award dinner and fuck fest. Bill took to the bottle after Debbie gutted him so he could forget the hurt he felt when she told him she no longer loved him. It didn't work so he started to turn it around and the next time he faces Dougie, Dougie will be the one bitch slapped senseless and then dropped like a wet sack of shit.

To onlythelonleylove:

You assert that Debby tried to get Bills attention.

Go back and reread the first chapter where Bill confronts Debby about her shaved pussy, and here I will paraphrase, Debby says, I shaved it for you, and Bill says when were you going to show me your shaved pussy, when you finished reading your book? When you took off your clothes and jumped my bones? by the way when was the last time you jumped my bones? OH YEAH, NEVER. So it appears that Debbie's assertion that she tried to get Bills attention is just another in her string of many lies as she played the slut while building a separate life from Bill,

Now we come to the dear children, who Kelly says tried to avoid Bill at all times because he wouldn't let them run around, drink and get high "DO DRUGS" like their friends, but evidently Debby let this happen and shielded Bill from the truth, and every on says it was Bill not spending time with the dear sweet innocent children. GIVE ME A BREAK, wake up and smell the dope in the air. Oh I know, its all Bills fault for working hard to support his family, and heaven help the poor schlub that actually enjoys his job.

The only mistake I personally see that Bill made was trusting his wife and children to be good citizens, faithful and honest.

To GrumpyGamby:

Sorry about the cheap shot on the age crack, I was just being an ass go get your goat, and evidently it worked.

PS: Feminist= Betty Friedan, Helen Gurley Braun (Eva), Gloria Steinham, Jane Fonda, (ET ALL)

great story! keep them coming!

To all the posters who are surprised that DQS1 has Debbie character turn out to be a Slut wife.-Have you read ANY of DQS1 other stories? In THE LAST GOODBYE the character Mona who is Lew's wife -bangs 40 guys. In THE DREAM WIFE the wife character Holly has weekly one night and short term affairs over the 10 year marriage. DQS1 is going with what he knows-and judging by the amount of comments DSQ1 has a wide reader base.

.............

I also look forward to the outcome. I hope DSQ1 does not just have Bill walk away and "Live Well". This would leave Debbie rewarded for her behaviour-Debbie would get the House, kids, job, Doug-with no real penalty.Karma justice requires something like Doug having sex with Kelly the daughter (in Debbies bed). Doug after all may not be a predator-but Doug is a ego driven oportunist. Doug got to steal the MILF from Hubby, Screw the MILF in hubbys bed-and while Debbie the MILF wouldn't give him her heart (only ass, pussy,mouth) he can still complete the ego Trifectia by bagging the MILFs hot daughter. That would be one proper payback for Debbie. A simple STD on Debbie via Doug would be another.

......................

About the only way I could see DSQ1 getting Debbie/Bill back together would be as one poster suggested -Debbie getting breast cancer and surviving-but loseing "the twins" she is so proud of. Bill would need to cut back work to handle the teen kids and would reconnect with the children. Bills "nice guy/hero mode" would kick in in reaction to Debbie's surgery, chemo, etc. Debbie robbed of her one "asset" that attracts attention may finally "mature" and be able to capitalize/take advantage of Bill better nature.

..................................................

Keep us guessing DQS1-I am enjoying the series.

Vietvet: "Grumpy is a middle aged feminist about the same age as Hillary, Bill's Clinton."

Hillary is nearly 20 years older than me. Now to some, that may seem the "same age" But a woman in her 40s does NOT EVER wish to be considered the "same age" as a woman in her 60s! You, sir, could benefit from this saying: "Google twice post once" And perhaps you should define feminist before we agree to disagree on that one.

Harry, by your standard of logic, if anything in any post isn't accurate, the whole post (and poster for that matter) is suspect. You called me an imbecile, an asshole, a dummy, a dude and a sir.

Since I wont sink to your level, I don't believe anything more needs to be said.

Size 14: Thank you.

And lastly,

Yes Lew could very well be disbarred! He is an officer of the court. You don't get to take that hat off to make things convenient. I think it very telling how the "torch the Bitch" crowd loosens their moral standard when a character they can sympathize with behaves badly. I think it's a healthy progression when those who can only see in black and white slowly develop a sense of gray.

Norm, Lew, and Mona from the Last Goodbye. Lyle and the Carters from Moment of Clarity (in the Last Goodbye) - I enjoy how you weave your characters into other stories.

I know Norm , Lew and Mona were mentioned in last chapter

Where were Lyle and the Carters metioned ? How did I miss it ?

I agree that Bill's commitment to his job and lack of commitment to his family are not the equal of cheating. The way I look at it is that cheating is directly related to breaking the marriage vow of forsaking all others. However, Bill did break another vow that of honoring and cherishing his wife. This became more evident this chapter since we learned how much Debbie tried to get him to change. It just shows that not all marriages are destroyed by a single action. I guess the point of this argument is whether or not there could a reconciliation. For me after this chapter it's harder than ever to imagine a reconciliation whether they were both at fault or not. For me the key issues are the point Lew brought up. Bill deserves someone he could trust. They just weren't right for each other. She is a sex crazed woman who is amazingly shallow and insecure. Considering she is a college professor she seems to get pretty much all of her self esteem from her large breasts. I don't know, but either something must be wrong with her and she's headed for an emotional collapse or DSQ has made some serious miscalculations in order to make the fan base happy. I hope it's not the latter. And one thing I've noticed about DSQ is that he really digs into the emotional turmoil of his characters and how their state of mind is a reflection of the chaos they are living through. Remember back in earlier chapters when Bill seemed like such a complete wimp. Well, now months have gone by and he has moved passed that part of his recovery. Perhaps Debbie is beginning to realize what she has done and now she is starting to fall apart too. Can't wait to find out though.

....."yet you didn't address the central claim I made: Bill is emotionally cheating on his wife. Do you agree? If not, why not?...."

MY ANSWER: Bill was certainly NEGLECTFUL towards debbie and the kids emotionally and Phyically. It is a useful "image" to say Biill was married to his job but its not really accurate. To assert that BILL was emotionally cheating JUST like debbie is to say

1) that his JOB/ career is another person. It isnt.

2) that BILL INTENTIONALLY pulled away from Debbie and his kids.

That is FALSE. What Debbie did was INTENTIONAL as she has admitted to in this chapter. I know you cannot see this but most others can.

*-*-*

....."So, Harry, it is a simple question that I will ask again: Does Bill LOVE HIS WIFE; or put more accurately, did he love his wife BEFORE he found out about the emails, etc?...."

Yes he did. What you dont get and see is that there is a difference with regard to WHY Bill was NOT there . IMO....There is a difference between .not being there (...not talking the wife in the bedroom ... not connecting to the kids.... ) because you are over worked versus say because you have a Gambling or drug or say a Pornography issue.

"......SO, what do we call Bill's actions in neglecting his family and emotionally/physically ignoring his wife? Evidence of Harry Love? Or is it possible for a person's actions to express ambivalence; or, dare I say it, be examples of both love and un-love? Yes Harry, Debbie's cheating is bad, not loving to Bill. I agree. But as I have argued before (and not again) I don't think that Harry Love is a strong enough definition of love. And it doesn't capture mixtures of emotions that include love. Sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on that aspect of human nature.\......"

what you cannot see is that the fact that Bill screwed up in some ways almost as bad as debbie doesnt mean things are "even". You dont see the issue of the KINDs of screw ups...all you see is magnitude.

a major screw up when I am making Frensh toast is burning it. A Major screw up with say a handgun would be to leave it laying about loaded where a Kid could pick it up.

Both things are in their own way a major league screw s up but the NATURE of the mistakes are NOT the same.

Bill is definitely moving on. His focus is on his kids now. He is also quite committed to his workout regimen. He will have a long and distinguished career.

Looking back, Bill has always had a strong sense of right and wrong. That is how he met Debbie. She seems to have forgotten that he was willing to to face down, not just a single person, but a gang of them for someone he really did not know. Was that strange look in her eye after the fight sequence a fleeting reminisence of that Bill she first noticed? He wasn't afraid then and he isn't afraid now. Bill was in private practice for a while, but not as a partner. When he joined the State Attorney's office he had met his calling. He has accomplished much in his relatively short career with the SA's office.

Looking back on Debbie, she was a tease in college. She is still a tease and has been one throughout her marriage. She is still a college tease because she never left college, just changed positions from student to professor. What has she accomplished? She is an assistant professor. Most business professors I know have had a distiguished career in business, or are sought after consultants. Debbie has none of this experience. As for Doug, he would have finished his MBA at 24 if he followed the normal academic pace, and is 29 now. Only five years to make his mark and I would surmise that he spent most of that in academia, because of the number of papers he has published. Again, another character with no real practical experience, but one hell of an ego. Doug has always been the arrogant stud, and like Debbie, has apparently always been a college stud. I think they are two of a kind and would make a perfect couple, because they would truely be into swinging and an open marriage, where everyone just assumed that Bill and Debbie had one. Debbie did a great job of promoting that perception. At first, Debbie did have feelings for Bill, but as time progressed she saw Bill as a convenience and an easy mark to continue with her need for attention until such a time that she could find the right match, Lance4U/Doug.

Bill will continue on with his life and career, and will be suprised at how much he is sought after as a man. Debbie and Doug will marry and live out their life of debauchery because they can. Bill's life will be fulfilling and rich. Debbie and Doug will be outside the norm, but that is what they chose and is what they are. They have each other, but little else. Their circle of friends is already getting smaller and I would expect that later on Doug will run into a younger woman that he will also feel for and will want children. Debbie will already be too old. She will have plenty of sex partners though, because they have some extraordinary plastic surgeons in Florida. The sad part about Debbie is that will be enough. This was really a goodbye, and all Debbie is thinking about is sex.

Looking forward to the next episodes in this great novella.

I see that several readers have posted about this. The amswer is NO

Lew was NOT acting in a legal capacity when he was talking to Debbie.

Rread the story again. !!!!! ...................... THAT is why debbie's lawyer was NOT in the room.

Pay attention folks.

Because they both are shoveling the same bullshit with the same shovel. Both are idiots busy spinning the bullshit.

I love your writing even if I don't particularly like certain elements of the plot here. Please continue your excellent submissions and I know you're writing quickly and I don't feel like I should try to hurry you but still...

TO anon:

"I stopped reading when he threatened blackmail.

Not only could she sue for defamation of character but he would be so disbarred he wouldn't be able to get a job handing out court transcripts."

That would depend entirely on whether she would be able to prove that he threatened her with blackmail. It probably wasn't a smart idea to talk to a lawyer without her own lawyer present but she doesn't seem to be too bright a person in the first place.

Not only could she sue for defamation of character but he would be so disbarred he wouldn't be able to get a job handing out court transcripts. She did nothing wrong except say one wrong phrase and suddenly she is the bad guy? I don't buy it. Her "husband" becomes an alcoholic, lazy and gets into a fight with a guy to prove his manhood and he's the "hero"? Puh-leeze! He's an assclown and she is better off without him.

and welcome

"Many readers have commented that Bill has made some serious mistakes by not showing up even when he was home.... by his extreme commitment to his work. I have personally stated this view many times."

Yes Harry, you have; yet you didn't address the central claim I made: Bill is emotionally cheating on his wife. Do you agree? If not, why not?

Second,

"I along with many readers have frequently mentioned how Bill was NOT holding up his end the bargain/ marriage." So, Harry, it is a simple question that I will ask again: Does Bill LOVE HIS WIFE; or put more accurately, did he love his wife BEFORE he found out about the emails, etc?

Oh, I remember all that. Yet... After all, according to Harry, Harry Love is about physical manifestations of love--its about ACTIONS. Well, we know that expressions of love can take a whole lot of other forms, but... let us go with Harry's definition/example. SO, what do we call Bill's actions in neglecting his family and emotionally/physically ignoring his wife? Evidence of Harry Love? Or is it possible for a person's actions to express ambivalence; or, dare I say it, be examples of both love and un-love? Yes Harry, Debbie's cheating is bad, not loving to Bill. I agree. But as I have argued before (and not again) I don't think that Harry Love is a strong enough definition of love. And it doesn't capture mixtures of emotions that include love. Sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on that aspect of human nature.

And on that note--what do you say about Bill's actions after he found out about the emails? Is it really about love or is it about wounded pride? Or both?

As for Lew's behaviour--maybe you expect it, but doesn't it constitute a breach of ethics, and hey, even breaking the law? And here is the prosecutor--"the fine, uncorruptible man" as Lew would say, basically saying--"no harm, no foul" to Lew? You might like Bill conditionally, but everything he is doing seems pretty cold-blooded (and in character) given the way he treated his family, and I don't find it attractive... On that segue,

Hi Anonymous,

I don't agree with the claim that Bill is "innocent" and a good guy for witholding the email. "Oh, it was Lew! And he is a shark!" Well, I ask this: Didn't Bill know his friend was a shark, and ruthless (by the way, ruthless can be used in many contexts, it doesn't require death as a possible outcome...), and would stop at nothing? So, Bill gives his friend the emails and says--"please don't use them as blackmail.... please, never!!" Since everyone is telling me that Bill knows his friend--the shark, and I am naive for thinking he could act otherwise, dwell on that thought for a while. Surely Bill knows what his friend will do? He isn't naive about this, is he? He told him not to, but he did anyway. And how surprised was Bill? How outraged at the besmirching of his moral uprightness. They will probably share a beer the next day, that is how upset he was. Wow, heart wrenching... So, why is Bill not really upset? Because Lew is his friend? Even Debbie thought that such a revelation would destroy Bill and Lew's friendship, and she wasn't prepared to do that--guess she didn't know her husband that well. I am wholly unimpressed by claims of Bill's moral conviction/superiority. Having someone do your dirty work for you is not the basis for moral superiority, in my opinion.

I re-read this chapter and this piece caught my attention —

After another long, meaningful glance, Joyce sighed and said, "Well, if you see him, would you give that good looking partner of yours a hello from me?"

Lew nodded and said, "Sure. Just..."

He gestured to her and they walked together to the side of the conference room, but Debbie could hear them.

"I'll tell him hello, Joyce. He's dating a few girls right now but he might surprise you and call. It's just-"

"I'm a big girl, Lew. I'd rather it was you, but you're off the market. I'd just like to have a little fun."

"Joyce, I love the guy, but be careful. He's catnip, but...he chews women up and spits them out. He's not a long term guy, never has been. And you're a nice lady."

"Who's going to be home alone watching a Cinemax after dark sex movie that will just depress me, or going to a meat market, which will depress me even more. He is so...gorgeous. I wouldn't mind being treated like a sex object...once in a while."

He leaned over and gave her a brotherly peck on the cheek, saying, "I'll give him your number tomorrow. Just don't get your hopes up and...be careful."

*-*-*

Who is that “HIM”? Were they talking about Norman? Or Bill?

I read comments that said — Mona is cheating on Lew. I don’t think so, Lew is very confident that won’t happen. His confidence towards Mona and Norman is — exceptional. If the above conversation was about Norman (him) — a new set of couple in the story? OR it’ll be so much fun to read that Debbie’s divorce lawyer got hooked up with her ex-husband.

Honestly, I didn’t like Debbie’s character in this chapter — it just doesn’t match with her portrait in the earlier chapters. She was “neglected” wife and not some wanton “nymphomaniac”. If she had so higher sex libido — why didn’t she just left Bill earlier, why she “hung-in-there” for almost 20 years? But that’s just me. Also, what about Dougie? Is he out of the picture?

And please leave a comment when you post the next chapter, I hope it come out soon this time.

~Kelly~

“Bill neglected his children, that I agree with. He wasn't there for them, didn't know what was going on in their lives, and pretty much barely knew they existed. Yes, that's a major bad point right there, I won't argue that.” This is a common theme in many commentators’ assessment of Bill’s role in the dissolution of his family. But tthis is certainly not the whole story. Other family members had something to gain by witholding information from Bill: READ ON:

A Conspiracy of Silence and Collusion

Debbie and the kids withheld crucial information from

Bill involving individual and shared experiences. Why did they do this; what did they stand to gain by excluding Bill from events and activities which he should have been informed about and given the opportunity to participate in the decision-making. The kids were concerned that if daddy learned of the “rapes” he may very well have taken actions against the perpetrators. I’d be willing to bet there were other things the kids were involved in that he knew nothing about. Debbie informed Bill after the fact that he was kept out of the loop because she did not want the kids traumertize any more than they already had been. I think she had another reason: by letting the kids know in various ways that she had the authority and power tro protect them, they in turn reciprocated by not sharing with dear old DAD what MOMMY was doing when he was not around. Debbie started going to social gatherings, dinners, and clubs long before Doug came along. So her friends and colleagues were not surprised of her going solo, and some likely supported the evolving relationship with Doug. I am sure the kids were aware that MOMMY had a social life independent of their dad, and probably “aided and abetted her efforts, because they and mommy had concluded that daddy only cared about his job. I am not blaming the kids for this state of affairs; Debbie is clearly at fault!! Would Bill Have taken a more active interest in his kids affairs if he had been kept informed? I think he would have.

Several readers mentioned that the kids attitude and behavior toward Doug were odd for Teenages. I do not think this is correct, because they were well aware of their mothers’ outings, and not surprised when Doug appeared before the ink was dry on the divorce petition. THEY KNEW, because mommy had already prepared them.

Wow, only one anonymous comment is allowed? Well, I signed up. I'm the guy who replied to onlythelonelylove's comment. And the comment I typed just got eaten, so I'm re-typing this. If it does show up later (under anon, probably), I apologize for the redundancy. And for the life of me, there were some points I made in the eaten post that I can't remember now anymore.

Anyway.

This new "slutty" Debbie came as a surprise. From the previous chapters I had imagined her as a cold, cruel, angry, neglected woman who simply does not care about Bill anymore. Worse, wanting revenge on him. This chapter makes her to be a slut who thinks only with her pussy. Like other commenters have said, she's almost like a caricature.

Bill neglected his children, that I agree with. He wasn't there for them, didn't know what was going on in their lives, and pretty much barely knew they existed. Yes, that's a major bad point right there, I won't argue that.

As for the "lesser of two goods", no significant other wants to be that in a relationship. Continuing with that, does "neglect" equal "ruthlessness"?

Was Bill "ruthless" with his family? Wouldn't it be the opposite? He's letting them walk all over him, especially his wife. In this chapter she pretty much tells us that she had taken Bill for granted, never for a moment doubting his love for her.

Ruthlessness implies wanting them to hurt, in an "I'll kill your family and your dog too!" way. Bill was never like that with his family.

I'm bad with homework, but that does not mean I want my school to shut down, to give an analogy.

And bringing the Seven Sins into this, Bill would be guilty of Sloth, not Wrath...

"Lew KNOWS what Bill really wants (as many commentators here say)--to be ruthless to Debbie, to win at all costs, etc."

Winning at all costs? Really? If Bill had REALLY wanted to win at all costs, he would've used the emails just as Lew had described. That would've destroyed Debbie's reputation, standing, work, friendships and family relations. It would have been a total "victory".

But Bill doesn't. The only reason he is even mentioning the emails is to make Debbie drop the alimony. It's a shield against alimony, not a killing blow. Is that winning at all costs?

"As for love--yes, Bill "didn't want" to expose the emails. But Lew KNEW that is what Bill wanted or should want. And after Lew did it, Bill forgave him straight away. Does that sound like "love" to you. It doesn't to me."

Bill never exposed the emails, the only thing he did (through Lew) was to let Debbie know they existed. Bill was too weak to force Debbie drop the alimony with the emails, and that's why he let Lew do it. Even if Bill does not love Debbie anymore, he STILL does not want to hurt her by exposing the emails. If he really had not cared, or even hated Debbie, he would've used the emails.

And let me ask you a question in return. Debbie's email correspondence, the lying, the deceit, the dinner confrontation, the restraining order and the alimony, does that sound like "love" to you? Do you think Debbie still loves Bill?

(I just realized that if you think Debbie does NOT love Bill anymore, much of this post will be irrelevant, because I tried to compare their actions, for people claiming to still love eachother. But if you think Debbie doesn't, then, well...)

I think everybody can agree that both Bill and Debbie screwed up. It takes 2 to make or break a marriage. I think the majority of the "pro" Bill folks are mostly on his side because he didn't intentionally and with malice set out to destroy his marriage and family. I don't think Debbie was ever been happy but was in denial especially once Doug came on the scene. Debbie lied to herself, to her husband, to her family and to her friends. Debbie did just about everything the wrong way and was extremely passive aggressive with Bill before the separation. Now she's starting to realize what she has done. Since everything has come to a head at the award dinner Bill has been taking the mature high road(I mean after the fight) while Debbie has continued to be a self centered cunt.

Bill isn't free from any blame but he certainly didn't do anything close to as mean and hurtful as debbie's actions. People are siding with the lesser of 2 evils in this scenario and clearly its Bill but Bill has also been victimized by his wife's direct actions and contempt. Its just natural that a majority of people would lean towards Bill's side in this.

I'm also in the camp that thinks that no one is going to be satisfied with how this story ends.

I like this series.

The characters have some depth, and the situation isn't black and white.

Just one small pedantic point. The action is meant to be set in 2005, but Debbie is driving round in a 2010 Nissan? That little detail jolted me out of the flow of the story. Is it possible to edit it now its posted?

For the commenters that find Debbie's thoughts and behaviour in this installment too extreme - I've got some sympathy with you. It stretched my credulity too.

However, I rationalised it as the Debbie character being very angry and upset at this point in the plot.

For the first time in a long time she's not getting everything exactly as she wants. Angry and upset people tend to think polarised thoughts, and make dumb decisions, which they will self-justify despite the balance of evidence.

That's the way I've chosen to read it at the moment. I guess I'm hoping that later on when Debbie has calmed-down we will see her look back on the way she behaved in these scenes with some embarrassment and regret.

Some may argue my assertion that its the first time in a long time Debbie hasn't got her own way, bearing in mind her poor relationship with Bill.

However, there hasn't been anything so far to indicate she made any attempt to fix things with Bill before she turned outside her marriage to get the attention she craved.

So I think she *was* getting it her own way.

(1) Security and a good standard of living from unaware trusting dull Bill.

(2) Thrills and illicit attention from a series of men, but with a way to shut them down when they wanted more, because she was married.

(3) A self-sense of moral justification for her actions, because of Bill's neglect.

For the plot line to be believable from here on in, I think you have to accept that Debbie is an attention-seeker. Otherwise its impossible to understand why she didn't make serious attempts to fix her relationship with Bill before seeking outside thrills. On some level she must have been happy with the way things were, because it gave her justification (in her eyes) for behaving the way she did.

I'm not sure yet if she is aware of her own motivation, or if she does it without realising.

For those that say a college professor wouldn't act this way - wake up and smell the coffee! There is no correlation between being academically smart and emotionally smart. That the Debbie character is a professor in no way conflicts with her being needy and selfish emotionally, just as being smart enough to be a DA doesn't stop Bill being so emotionally unaware that he doesn't see what was going on in his own family.

Bill & Debbie's strengths and weaknesses in this respect are really just two sides of the same coin. If you believe one, why not both?

I did not see you 1st LOOOONG post and since it is directed at ME I thought I should answer it.

Harry Love? ROTFLMAO....

1. show up.

2. let her talk

3 look at her first... then her tits .... then her. Repeat.

4 kills the bugs.... and fix things that need to be fixed.

5. find out what she likes in the bedroom... do them.

6. do housework/ cleaning.

7. try to stay in shape and stay clean

-------------------------------------

Your polemic here is a just an attempt to prove that ANY sort of actions words behavior by Debbie is Justified becuase Bill was overowrking and NOT there her .

The argument that Debbie has become extreme character at the lawyer's office that was consistent... I simply don't follow.

Her entire course of actions... Becoming involved with the Doug...

ingnoring then breaking strip university rules and guidelines about mentor relationships with protégés... Does indeed show somebody who is so emotionally and or sexually frustrated that they are almost out of control.

*-*-*

.........If her view is correct, just as Debbie has broken her vows, so has Bill. I can understand that many commentators are in Bill's corner; after all, Debbie was emotionally cheating with Doug long before things came to a head. She allowed herself to be put in compromising situations with strange men, and even if she didn't have sex, she found the rubbing pleasurable to some extent and a "naughty" thrill. So, she doesn't look good. But then again, neither does Bill. He has been emotionally cheating on Debbie for YEARS--not with a woman, but with his job........

Apparently you are having trouble remembering some of the comments after the various chapters. Many readers have commented that Bill has made some serious mistakes by not showing up even when he was home.... by his extreme commitment to his work. I have personally stated this view many times.

Yet you go one stating this several times as if you only person here was discovered this perspective. Your assertion that many / most of the the commentators are in Bill's corner is BULLSHIT.

It would be accurate to say that many readers and commentators are in Bill' s corner CONDITIONALLY .

About Lew. The story mentions many times and indeed so does the author DQS that Lew is shark and vicious Attorney. In this chapter we see that.

And you are upset because Lew is EXACTLY wehat we were told he was going to be? WHY?

I'm not saying you have to like him I don't understand your rather irrational discombobulated views. Sure he is manipulative . Sure he is mean -- are you actually surprised that there are attorneys like this in the world ?

*-*-*

........"Finally, Harry asked a question a while back: What evidence do we have for Debbie still loving Bill? Good question. ..."

Yes it was. You argued against me -- that she did still Love Bill... but this chapter proved I was right.

at this point you simply go off the deep end in your attempt to prove that white is Black.... Up is down ..... peace is war

"......Harry cannot countenance the idea that Debbie could still love her husband in some way—after all, she said she didn't love him anymore, even if she gives a lot of ambivalent signals—so she musn't love him, right?...."

this isnt brain surgery. Engaging in emails filled with sexual flirting and innuendo... Having fantasies about the same person you are emailing while the same time the saying how you cannot talk to your husband and you don't love him any more.... MEANS something.

but NOT to you.

"...........So, what does Harry make of the fact that Bill says he loves his wife and family, and then readily admits (with some reflection) that they come a distant second to his really great love—his job? ....."

again WHY are bringing this up again? I along with many readers have frequently mentioned how Bill was NOT holding up his end the bargain/ marriage. That he was directly complicit in how the marriage crisis developed and unfolded.

Folks like YOU keep arguing the point as if nobody over the past four chapters and the hundreds and hundreds of feedback posts has argued that bill has screwed up.

STOP THAT.

Norm, Lew, and Mona from the Last Goodbye. Lyle and the Carters from Moment of Clarity (in the Last Goodbye) - I enjoy how you weave your characters into other stories.

I can't blame you for the "reuse" because I like them a lot, too. Thanks. More please.

i understand why you were disappointed in this chapter. You seem to be unable to figure basics things like welll ... the Law.

FOR EXAMPLE.... Your question about Dedbie ... tells me you miss the BIG point...

...."What type of brain dead caricature of a bimbo do we have here?..."

the same type of mature well educated COLLEGE Professor that mis-used or ignored her Mentor relationship with doug in Chapter 1. Doing so could ONLY result in problems for Debbie Bill Doug and the kids. Yet she INTENTIONALLY moved away from BILL and towatrds Doug. ...so HOW is that inconsistent?

*-*-*

Next you stated:

.....A university that doesn't mind a still married shack up as soon as the husband moves out but will fire everyone in sight because the affair might have been getting started earlier? If her private actions where so damning what about her public actions? I mean when did the relationship turn improper? It just doesn't ring true....".

Dude geta grip. NO university can ever fire anyone because two consenting adults even if married are in the same house same bed and fucking. How would anyone in the U of adminstration even Know that???? and on WHAT LEGAL BASIS COULD THEY TAKE ACTION?

*-*-*

........"Finally, the scene where she begins to lust after the body of her soon to be ex... and doesn't recognize him after just three months! Give me a break! I know that's the wet dream of a dumped spouse, but it just demeans Debbie more.....".

WOW you are NOT seeing this at ll. The scene at the Gym was done to show that it never occurred to her the Bill was anything other than a fat balding pasty ass middle age AGING white man.

Your last point is Gibberish. I mean really dumb. Bill admits that he IS the JOB and he cannot have a woman like debbie around that is so high maintance. Bill is admitting that he did contribute to the marriage collapse... and you think this makes Bill look what..... weak?.

What you are doing is obvious.

while I have said MANY MANY times going into the story the background shows that BILL in in part at fault. Few readrrs here have disputred THAT !

Debbie is or became a high maintance woman. Debbie falling out of Love... that is NOT her fault.

But you are engaging in SPIN. the fact that Bill was over working does not in ANYWAY JUSTIFY how debbie handled this.

Period.

Anything else you have to say is Bullshit.

Harry

ps only the lonelylove but only the smart can see

Thanks for your thoughtful response. The first thing I want to say is that your interpretation makes sense--it is just that I can't agree with it. All we have to go on is the thought processes of the two characters, and Debbie tells us, "Bill was not home much, and when he was he ignored her;" and Bill agrees--"Yep, I was married to my job, and was not home alot or giving youy what you needed." It may well be that Debbie was (or is) a "slut in hiding" but she mostly dealt with it by suppressing it, reduced to an illicit "rub" or "tweak." They both agree that she was seriously neglected emotionally and sexually. His kids seriously emotionally neglected. We know that because Bill tells Debbie in all seriousness that he can't do the right thing of what a marriage asks. It is a contract he would fail to uphold.

Two things: Given how Debbie is acting now, and from what we learned of her past (saved from a gangbang, etc), how the hell did Debbie keep her legs closed for the majority of her marriage, given her neglect? Isn't the first rule of slutdom that a neglected wife will go off and have intense sex with others? An occasional rub or tweak, doesn't really appear to fit the bill here, does it? Also, Doug waged an all out campaign over many months to seduce her. How many men could say no to the female equivalent of Doug? If Literotica stories are to be believed--not many! So, what keeps her in check all those years--the kids? Her own morals? Her love for Bill? That is the part of the author's work that hasn't been explained, given this sudden metamorphises into the "new and improved" Debbie. If she was as you say she is, then why didn't she cheat "more robustly" much earlier?

Second issue: I can understand that you do not equate Bill's love for his job as cheating on Debbie. You see hers as much worse. I just do not agree with you. Jasonnh, Vulcan, etc., talked about the astronaut in space for six months. Why not add in a soldier at war. So? These gentleman hopefully come back, once the mission or war is over. A suffering or tempted wife can say to themselves--"Hey, my man is coming home in x days. I know he wants to be with me!" Where does Debbie get the same message? She doesn't. Bill is not home, even when he is home. The analogy that might be better is the war vet who comes home, and never reconnects with his family--the trauma is to great. There are good reasons why the kids grunted their way through the separation process--not just because of teenage angst (and brain development), but also Bill's highly problematic process of "fatherhood." The rapproachment between daughter and father feels a little forced. In this I agree with APeacefulPlaceTx. If Bill and Debbie were orthodox jews, they would have been divorced much earlier than the chain of events that led Debbie to flirt with Doug. Bill isn't holding up his end of the marriage contract, and hasn't for a long time. And, as another commentator (sorry, its a long train of comments) said earlier, women have put up with this for the greater good of a husband following an alturistic goal or doing well in business. And we know what we call many of these couples, right? Divorced. I don't think we are always aware of just how bitter it is to feel like the "lesser of two goods" in a situation like this. And in this marriage's case--it was a choice Bill made day after day, year after year.

As for ruthlessness and doing "the right thing." What do you call it when Bill is willing to completely sacrifice the happiness of his family--kids and wife--for "doing the right thing?" He might not have been consciously aware of it, but he did it anyway. I call that being ruthless and winning at all costs. It has an up side--bad people go to gaol, but he lost his family. You feel that because he was not "consciously intending" this result, we should absolve him of these labels. I disagree. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Also, it is part of a pattern with Bill. Lew KNOWS what Bill really wants (as many commentators here say)--to be ruthless to Debbie, to win at all costs, etc.

As for love--yes, Bill "didn't want" to expose the emails. But Lew KNEW that is what Bill wanted or should want. And after Lew did it, Bill forgave him straight away. Does that sound like "love" to you. It doesn't to me.

PS. And APPTx, as for narcissism, they both have plenty of that!

I think it is Danielle and not Daniel. This last chapter is just too unbelievable, the wife now almost a complete reversal from the earlier chapters

Please read the Last Goodbye by the same author. It is about Lew and Mona. Mona, after divorcing from Lew, had at least 40 dicks in her before Lew took her back!!!! ...and he's Bill's best friend. I can picture Lew saying to Bill..."hey buddy, Deb only had one dick in her, take her back..Christ, Mona's had 40 and I took her back....and I know Mona's still going to cheat".

I think we are developing an understanding of how this author's mind works.

It would be interesting if in this story, Doug, being pissed to find out that Deb does not love him as he thought and risking his career, takes the offense and sues his employer and Deb for sexual harrassment. Doug has all the evidence.....Deb's frequent calls on Doug's call display that went unanswered and emails that Doug has somewhat skewed to his favour. After notifying the parties of the lawsuit and before presenting his evidence to the board, Bill, who has promised to protect Deb no matter what, interferes on the hush and hush. He takes Doug aside and privately, mano a mano, makes a deal with him that whoever wins the boxing match can either proceed or withdraw the lawsuit without interference from either party with one stipulation...no one is to know about the fight. Bill wins naturally, and day after, Doug appears before the board and Deb, all black and blue especially around the eyes and withdraws his complaint and resigns and leaves town. Deb's job is safe and she continues to have a stellar career emertius with NFU. However, Deb is shocked some years later when at Kelly's wedding she chats with an old guy who Bill invited to the wedding who owns a gym. In conversation, he tells her about a fight that he refereed 7 years previous between a young guy and Bill and how Bill whupped his ass. He goes on to say that he didn't know what the fight was about, but whatever it was, Bill told him that he expected him to keep his part of the bargain or he will have him killed. Upon hearing this, Deb quickly looks around for Bill and saw him shaking hands with guests, looking smart in his tux, hairless, smiling, still carrying a "handles-like" paunch and acting with Clark Kentish manners. She then saw her boy toy that she invited and for one moment of clarity, saw what she gave up but being self centered, shrugged the moment off and thought..."naaahh, a hard cock is better".

I really like DQS1's work. When I first read this I went back and read all his stuff and was impressed.

But this particular outing left me feeling a little down. First, he changed the character of his main female. The new one doesn't seem to match the old one. This one, instead of being a believable woman who grew, she has pretty much changed in to another middle aged cougar. A trend of which I am not really comfortable. She has lost any empathy. And the writing was a bit trite in places. I mean, he takes her chin in her hand and says "Just say goodbye."? In the succeeding chapter does he lisp "Here's looking at you, kid" or remind her "We'll always have Paris"?

Bill is still a little more believable and Lew is a great supporting character. All , in all, a good effort but I have read enough of DQS1's work that I expect a little better.

Can't wait for the next installment!

Cheers,

C

Frankly, I think this chapter was not well thought out and has ruined the character of Debbie. Suddenly the only thing she can think about is how hot her tits are? Jealous of the the only other woman who has better tits that she? What type of brain dead caricature of a bimbo do we have here? I guess there are some teenage girls that might actually think that way, but a college professor, and one senior enough to be assigned to mentor a "brilliant" young star?

I cringed repeatedly when we were in her POV. I also thought the scene with Lew was flat. We have her crumbling in the face of emails when she had no problem with bringing in her lover to her house. A university that doesn't mind a still married shack up as soon as the husband moves out but will fire everyone in sight because the affair might have been getting started earlier? If her private actions where so damning what about her public actions? I mean when did the relationship turn improper? It just doesn't ring true

Finally, the scene where she begins to lust after the body of her soon to be ex... and doesn't recognize him after just three months! Give me a break! I know that's the wet dream of a dumped spouse, but it just demeans Debbie more.

Frankly, I think she's being set up as having a brain tumor... except she's supposed to have been this shallow her whole married life! It makes me lose respect for our "hero" that he could love so absolutely a woman this superficial.

Same thing for the scene with the daughter. Suddenly she is self sacrificing because she respects her father? Where did that come from? Her father accepting her rape? What kind of jerk is he? Rapist don't rape once, and every prosecutor knows that. Sure he might want to shield his daughter, but God help the boy because nothing else could.

Last but maybe least is Debbie's "I did everything I could to get him to the gym, and now he's going?" Okay, that can be self delusional and we have a hint that Lew doesn't buy it. In fact the very fact that he's there is a strong indication that given sufficient motivation he would have made time for the gym and for his kids... or perhaps not since most people won't change until they hit bottom. However, if it is only because he hit bottom, I lose respect for him too.

Okay, one more last but not least, there's the faux nobility of "I am a prosecutor... nothing more!" Gag me with a spoon! It is one thing for a man to know that he's making sacrifices with his home life because his job is important. It's another altogether to say "I was wrong to put my job first but I didn't notice it." Okay, the guy is pretty down, but this chapter is suppose to show that he's getting over it. Instead of an interesting set of characters in a unique situation, we're left with a banal story of a husband who works too hard because he doesn't have a clue about how to be a family man and is married to a narcissistic slut.

Hmmm maybe I like the daughter is little... sorry this story has tanked.

I think several other readers said this as well. Some of the female readers are really unhappy with the way Debbie's character is portrayed. They either defend (justify) her behavior, decry her actions as unbelievable, or draw moral equivalency between her methods and those of males (i.e., Bill Maitland). I think Jasonnh and others correctly pointed out that some jobs do compete with time for family. A sailor on a ballistic missile submarine is away for 3 months, underwater, only reachable by family via emails. Does that make him a bad, uncaring person, because he is dedicated to his job? Should the husband and children of a female astronaut be angry with her because she is on the International Space Station for 6 months? Certainly the spouse "left at home" will feel lonely, unappreciated, abandoned at times. Of course, family life can suffer if a primary breadwinner is not home very much (other than sleeping). Are those sufficient excuses to have an affair? It happens, but is it justifiable? Debbie was educated and smart. She knew the person she was marrying would be busy with a job that demanded far more than 9 to 5. She stuck it out for 18 years or so, but clearly, her needs (validation as a woman, need for frequent attention, or whatever) were not being met. Bill feels guilty that he let it go this far; by the time he realizes this, it is too late. Despite all of this, Deb is not a sympathetic character as portrayed. I guess I should not be surprised that female readers are unhappy about this (grumpygamby, onlythelonelylove, etc.). I don't like reading about despicable (read that "wimpy") male characters, either. But it is, after all, only a story. Clearly a very good one, judging by the number of comments and their emotional content. Too bad we must wait a while for the next part.

I'd like to post a response to onlythelonelylove's comment on the story.

"Again, it is made super clear that the main cause of her dissatisfaction was the lack of attention given to her by her husband. If what she says is correct, and we don't know for sure (as it is her side we are hearing), its a powerful indictment of Bill."

The attention Debbie appears to need can in no way be satisfied by just one man. From the latest installment we learn that from before the marriage, and throughout, she has let men fondle her at parties, dances, etc. Logically, how can one man give as much attention to a person as SEVERAL other men? She's an attention junkie. Debbie NEEDS everybody to look at her. And if someone doesn't (like Lew), she gets upset.

IS Bill's "cheating with his job" equal to Debbie's cheating with another man? Here we most certainly disagree. Debbie's cheating is worse.

"And in answer to Harry's question about what made Bill ultimately unattractive to Debbie--its not really about the weight (though that didn't help), it was about the emotional cheating that Bill was doing."

No, it was that Bill could not give her enough attention like several men at once.

"And then there is Lew. I don't think he is a great friend, though he thinks he has Bill's back. I think he is repulsive. Blackmail. Manipulation. Ignoring his friend's explicit instructions. And the fact that Bill supports him "in the end" (after expressly telling him not to go all out) and forgives his friend for shafting his soon to be ex-wife, speaks volumes for Bill's feelings for his wife, and for how he really operates."

I DO think Lew is a great friend. Doing what is best for Bill, and doing it KNOWING Bill will get upset. Bill himself knows that threatening Debbie with the emails would be the right thing to do (for himself, that is), but he's too weak to do it. So Bill lets Lew do it for him, knowing that in the end, that would be the best for him. And THAT's probably one of the reasons why Bill forgave Lew so easily.

As for Bill's feelings for Debbie, equality right? Humiliation for humiliation? It speaks volumes for Debbie's feelings for Bill, to cheat in the first place (emotionally if not physically), the lying and the secrets, the dinner confrontation where she chose her lover's side over her husband's, and ofcourse the restraining order and the alimony.

(As a sidenote, argue all you want, but the alimony is pretty much a punishment for Bill, from Debbie. Compensation for being married for 20 years? It's not like she was being a housewife, staying at home all the time. She had a good job. So that can't be it.

The future of her job was messed up because Bill let everybody know she was having an affair with a student? Don't shoot the messenger, you know? The fact that she was having affair in the first place was already endangering her job, and not the fact that Bill let people know.

No, the alimony is to ensure that Debbie can maintain a good lifestyle if her affair blows up in her face, and to punish Bill for exposing it.

THAT is how Debbie REALLY operates.

"To those who think that Bill has become this way because of the way that Debbie has treated him, I beg to differ. It was always there. The ruthlessness, the expediency, the win at all costs mentality."

I think you are confusing ruthlessness with doing the right thing (even though the "right thing" did not include his family, which Bill admits).

He was ruthless in the way he would not take bribes, would see to it that bad guys were put in jail, would not be tempted by anything in any way, and that justice prevailed. It is not the ruthlessness of "surrender or I'll kill you and your family and your dog".

The win at all costs mentality is when Bill knows he is in the right, and he will see that to the end. And that is supposed to be a bad trait? An evil thing?

Finally, what evidence do we have that Bill still loves Debbie? Not wanting Lew to expose the emails perhaps? Or does that not count?

"after all, she said she didn't love him anymore, even if she gives a lot of ambivalent signals"

What ambivalent signals? The snowglobe. That was for what was lost, it was mourning for what has passed, not that she wants it back, that she still loves Bill.

The phonecall where Bill was rude to her? The phonecall was made because Debbie felt guilty for doing all that to him (cheating, Bill getting beat up, restraining order, etc.), and wanting him to tell her it was alright. Debbie wanted to alleviate her guilt. And when Bill let her know he WAS upset, he WAS angry, and did NOT wanted to talk to her, she got upset. It was all about her, her feelings, her not wanting to feel guilty. Bill was just a means to an end.

I think that if Bill had NOT cut her off, she'd talked about "good old times", and would've felt much better about her cheating afterwards.

"The interesting thing is that the author is showing us in this chapter ways in which people might be willing to make real sacrifices for each other's happiness (even if it is a tiny gesture, like not wanting to destroy someone's friendship, even if one party acted in a bastardly way, by being silent about that)."

Despite with Lew going through with it, Bill telling Lew NOT to use the emails does NOT count as a sacrifice? If Lew had not used the emails, Bill would have had to pay alimony for 20 years!

In conclusion, yes, both Bill and Debbie have a lot of growing up to do. Bill IS working on that, Debbie is not.

Please don't make this a story where the crazy slut wife finds out her hormones have gone haywire due to the onset of menopause and then she gets medical treatment and hubby loves her so much all is forgiven. That would totally suck.

The heading for this story says its a 4 part series. I assume this means its 4 chapters but chapter 2 was broken down into smaller segments so I'm hoping there are 2 more chapter left to go becasue if you count the sub parts of Ch.2 then its already exceeded 4 parts.

Sorry but I can't equate being a work-a-holic with being a cheater. Yes, what Bill did was wrong but its no where close to the level of the things Debbie has done during and after the separation. Still with this author's track record of endings even with Bill maintaining his integrity I still see him getting the shitty end of the stick in this drama.

I didn't like Debbie before this chapter but the Debbie revealed in this chapter is crazy. She is a 40 year old professor with big tits. She goes to her lawyer's office to meet her husband's friend/lawyer to try to resolve alimony demands. She leaves her bra in the car. Her lawyer see's her and approves her outfit? Loyal Lew arrives in the office and she shakes her tits and pops her nipples at him? She is sober, in a law office, trying to resolve a divorce.

She physically comes on to Lew and offers to blow him, knowing he is married and faithful to his wife!

The author reveals that over the years she allowed strangers to fondle her to the point of leaving marks. She is sick. There is no way that this would not have gotten back to her husband. He would have seen it himself even if by accident.

I love your writing but this plot line is too much! I look forward to reading the rest of the story.

One of my favorites in hrtr. I think it would be near to have Deb secretly huin the gym and start showung up ar night to work out with Bill. I hope that your story us centering on Bill and DEB GETTING BACK TUGETHER. kEEP UP THE EXCELLENT WRITEING. It is a pleasure to read your storys.

nice i am waiting for next part

In Lew's own story we hear about but never see what a good lawyer he was, as he is usually getting his ass handed to him by his wife in the courtroom. It was nice to see him get his hero moment in this chapter.

We're finding out the wife was a slut, just a little bit constrained and controlled that's all. Letting men pinch her nipples, no problem. Letting them caress her ass, sure. Rubbing their hard dicks through their pants, shit that's not cheating. Haha, like some other commenter said, the characters are getting more unlikeable. And Bill is getting wimpier.

as it was said when an author gets to me in his writing..then i will check everything out he does..you join a very small group my friend...Although there may now be maybe a dozen or a few more ...it has taken years to make that total..thanks

When I find an author that I like, I bookmark them. I guess that would be considered the best positive critique for the writer. Well, I've bookmarked you, DQS. I've read all your submitted stories and found them well written and enjoyable. This latest endeavor, in my opinion, was your best ... so far. But, I don't feel it's quite finished. When you develop such believable characters as Bill, Debbie and Lew, you can't allow them to fade away. As I am sure this was your intention, I sympathized with Bill and was pleased to see his strength and perseverance grow. I was disgusted with the shallowness of his wife, Debbie and the hint of a predator in Doug. I smiled at the love, friendship and loyalty shown by Lew. This story has so much more to go.

Thanks for a outstanding read.

This is a fantastic story. Very well written. I look forward to reading future stories by you. You really make the characters come alive. Thanks!!!

DQS has interwound a lot of characters from his other stories (a crossover in TV lingo).

Lew "the Shark" is the cheated on husband (by Norman and wife Mona) from THE LAST GOODBYE.

In the "LAST GOODBYE" Lew takes up with Cyndi a family relation in DQS story "A MOMENT OF CLARITY"

Nice sidestories woven into this tale!

She is so damn disgusting eeeeewwwwww

How Ilove this story, how I hate having to wait for the rest. The characters seem very real and we can like them or not. It's good to have friends who will protect your interests and stand up for you. Even if you yourself may think different or be too easygoing. The way Bill was pictured in his job by Lew, straight and making the right decisions, and yet human in his approach. Lew seems very different and hard in his approach, and less forgiving. I would hate for Bill having to prosecute his best friend Lew for assault or worse if/when Lew were to find out Mona is indeed cheating. As for Debbie and the children, not much suympathy there.

It was interesting to read the comments which seemed to more or less lionize Lew, drop heaps on Debbie (though that was perhaps (?) a tad more tempered this time around as her character rounds out), continue to think that Bill for all his faults is doing okey dokey...

I disagree. I was uncertain about the scene in the lawyer's office. What was the point of that? I agree with Ohio on that one: it seemed a bit out of character for the Debbie we have seen up to this point. Okay, if you are having her eventually go all "hysterical" and "breakdown" mode, then we will go--"Ah-hah! The clear indication of her craziness and delusional patterns was present at this point!"--but I hope not. If you want to go "stereo-typical" or “cartoon” its your choice, but your story will become one-dimensional soap opera. Again, I hope not. It is possible that Debbie is just feeling her oats, I guess. So, I will wait and see on that one. Further, Lew's reaction is also completely weird. Debbie's pheronomes must be absolutely amazing to have Lew react that way, given where his head and heart are at. I think your work would have been cleaner if you had played this scene “straight.” I can only think that this is a major shift point, with regards to plot. It opens up avenues, but I am unconvinced that the possible sub-plots (you point out—and they stick out a tad...) will be as interesting as the nuanced portraits you have been building of your two main characters. It is risky; if I wanted melodrama and theatrics, there are plenty of other authors willing to give us those.

Again, it is made super clear that the main cause of her dissatisfaction was the lack of attention given to her by her husband. If what she says is correct, and we don't know for sure (as it is her side we are hearing), its a powerful indictment of Bill.

If her view is correct, just as Debbie has broken her vows, so has Bill. I can understand that many commentators are in Bill's corner; after all, Debbie was emotionally cheating with Doug long before things came to a head. She allowed herself to be put in compromising situations with strange men, and even if she didn't have sex, she found the rubbing pleasurable to some extent and a "naughty" thrill. So, she doesn't look good. But then again, neither does Bill. He has been emotionally cheating on Debbie for YEARS--not with a woman, but with his job. We don't know who drifted from who, but the thing is--they are both equally responsible. To those who think that Debbie's sins are more aggravating, OK, we can agree to disagree. They both look bad. As for the idea of emasculation. Hmm... I see that as pretty much equal. She does a number on him at the dinner. He repays her at the same dinner. He is humilaiated, she is humiliated. Humiliation to share.. so I don't see him as being particularly more humiliated than her. Oh, that is right, she brought Doug into their house. Yep, that is after Bill left the house (Yes, I know she had the restraining order--but it was there AFTER the assault, and let us not forget how mature Bill was when he left the house the first time for a bit of atime-ourt...) . Would it be any different for the commentators if she left and took up with Doug in his house, and Bill was left at home? That is right--Bill didn't want custody of the kids. The college professor with the full-time job has custody of the kids, because she was there for them growing up and Bill wasn't, and she has the time (she is working full-time, right? How is she anble to do that?) to look after them. Still, Bill is a major breadwinner (and that is important), aas well as being an emotional vacuum (and that is important as well).

And in answer to Harry's question about what made Bill ultimately unattractive to Debbie--its not really about the weight (though that didn't help), it was about the emotional cheating that Bill was doing.

And then there is Lew. I don't think he is a great friend, though he thinks he has Bill's back. I think he is repulsive. Blackmail. Manipulation. Ignoring his friend's explicit instructions. And the fact that Bill supports him "in the end" (after expressly telling him not to go all out) and forgives his friend for shafting his soon to be ex-wife, speaks volumes for Bill's feelings for his wife, and for how he really operates. To those who think that Bill has become this way because of the way that Debbie has treated him, I beg to differ. It was always there. The ruthlessness, the expediency, the win at all costs mentality. It is now directed more obviously at Debbie, using Lew as a surrogate (to keep Bill's hands apparently clean). Yet Bill showed it much earlier--after all, as he admits--he wasn't there for his family, and part of the reason was the exact same expediency, ruthlessness, and win at any costs mentality. His job came first. He recognizes it now (to some degree), but what will he do about it? So Bill has an INTELLECTUAL understanding of the damge he did for years, but no MEDIATED understanding of its impact. Hopefully, that will come.

Finally, Harry asked a question a while back: What evidence do we have for Debbie still loving Bill? Good question. Here is one right back: What evidence do we have for Bill loving his wife? This might seem like an absurd question, because Bill kept telling us how much he loved his wife, and how much he trusted her before all this went down; how he helped provide for them, tried to win her back with one, count it—ONE(!!!!!) night of passion, etc.. Harry cannot countenance the idea that Debbie could still love her husband in some way—after all, she said she didn't love him anymore, even if she gives a lot of ambivalent signals—so she musn't love him, right? It has to be “guilt.” So, what does Harry make of the fact that Bill says he loves his wife and family, and then readily admits (with some reflection) that they come a distant second to his really great love—his job? That he is moved to fight for his wife, only after the horse has long bolted the barn? What is motivating that? How about another emotion. Pride. Pride is a form of love—self-love, but I don't think that is the “love” Harry has in mind here...

Well, Harry, if you don't think that Debbie loves Bill (even a smidgeon), I am at a complete loss as to how you can also say that Bill “loved” or “loves” Debbie. I present a different hypothesis for your consideration: Neither has any idea of what it means to share real love, or in this instance, what I term “Harry love.” Harry knows what “Harry love” is, though I am unclear. The interesting thing is that the author is showing us in this chapter ways in which people might be willing to make real sacrifices for each other's happiness (even if it is a tiny gesture, like not wanting to destroy someone's friendship, even if one party acted in a bastardly way, by being silent about that). Hey, maybe that might make it in, as part of a possible definition of “love,” whatever that word means.

In a nutshell: BOTH Debbie AND Bill have a lot of growing up to do.

Yep - Chapter 2D (D as in Debbie? D as in divorce? D as in dead meat!!!) has cast Mrs. Maitland in a less then flattering light - to put it mildly. DQS has walked us right to the edge with Debbie, is there any chance for redemption? - any hope for sympathy? The are three interesting, intersecting timelines here; Debbie, Bill, and Doug's. All have their flaws, their fears, and their inadequacies, non are blameless. If Debbie had filed for divorce a year ago we'd have no story. If Bill had been less consumed by his job - no story. And if Doug had been assigned to another mentor, well you get the idea.

The thing is the story could end right here like a crazy game of Clue - Debbie on her bed with a huge dildo. Bill, sweaty, shorn and working through all this. Hey what happened to Doug? And what the fuck is this Norm/Mona teaser all about?

So what's DQS going to do? Where is he taking us? Who's going to do what with whom and who else finds out and does what and when? And why?

I don't know!

But I can't wait to find out.

HDK and others,

Please note that Lew was not just Bill's attorney he was also his best friend and had been for a very long time. Debbie complained about his using Lew because THEY -- Debbie and Lew -- were good friends. The conversation took place "off the record" without Debbie's attorney present. Whatever Debbie did or said in the private conference was not interaction with Lew as an attorney. Debbie does enough to disgust the readership without making shit up to make her look even worse than she already is.

Lew is playing a role in that private conversation and pulling out all the stops to convince Debbie he would use the emails as Bill's friend to fuck her good if she didn't give up the maintenance she was seeking. What we don't know is what Debbie was up to with her flaunting her sexiness with Lew. I'll bet dollars to donuts what we saw wasn't what we were getting.

We do know that Debbie was not in a friendly mood going into that meeting. She is freshly reminded of Bill's in her eyes damaging her career and income potential and all the anger associated with that. She may have in her state of smoldering anger wanted to send a "message" to Bill, to inflict a little pain with what was likely an exagerated reporting of her behavior with men at parties and out to dinner and dancing etc. That shit goes on when marriages break up.

Good people sometimes do bad things and bad people sometimes do good things. Doing or saying some bad things does not make someone bad. Citing evidence of someone doing a bad thing or things does not "prove" that someone is bad, either.

To Vietvet:

GrumpyGamby is not my wife! I've been hitting on her for several years but so far I haven't gotten to first base much less convince her to marry me. I do admire her courage in posting an unpopular point of view, knowing it would invoke some rude comments.

She had always engaged in slutty behavior behind her husband's back. I sure hope you don't ruin a great story by having him reconcile with her.

Bill definitely needs to, physically, kick Doug's ass, but it would be more fitting to have him put a serious move on Bill's underage daughter, sufficient to allow him to be prosecuted by by Bill's star assistant, convicted, and sent to prison. But, it's your story and it has been a damned good one so far!

While the story is sometimes riveting, and Bill is the kind of guy we all root for, Debbie is just all over the map.

1. She is supposed to be a good and selfless mother but in this chapter it is hard to believe she thinks of anything but mindless sex.

2. She stayed loyal for 20 years but was a tease and in this chapter she sees Doug as a fuck toy and pounds herself with a dildo thinking of college aged boys.

3. She is upset and cries at Bill reading and knowing about her emails but is coldly cruel to him when she announces repeatedly that she does not love him, feels no guilt over her feelings and writing them into the emails, looks at Bill as a flabby idiot, and walks into the gym with wet snatch at the thought of some random guy working out.

3. Her scene with Lew, a family friend, as she degradingly describes Bill only in physical terms and tries to seduce him, is just completely out of character, even in light of the above.

Bill is a somewhat coherent, flawed guy but his wife is a construct of a completely sex crazed slut wife who somehow was loyal to Bill and even cried when she missed him due to his putting the career first. She is becoming nonsensical contradictions.

Grumpy is a middle aged feminist about the same age as Hillery, Bill's Clinton.

Hay grumpy, did you ever hear the term's prick, bastard, cuckold, pedophile, lecher, cradle robber, dirty old man, and cock sucker?

All are terms used in the place of slut for the male of the species.

Hay Harry:I lust had an epiphany. I think Grumpy may be married to size14shoe as they seem to think so much alike.

Debbie's character does slip into the cartoonish slut range in this chapter.

But it also brings up the idea of an extremely attractive, and certainly accomplished woman who, at the most basic level, got her validation from how men responded to her looks and sexual desireablility. Her actions were certainly sleazy and shallow as she acted out her betrayal, not just with Doug but with all the other guys she let rub her tits or grind their cocks into her crotch.

To me, if she were a real life person, I would cut her some slack(though not if she were MY wife). Her husband put her and his kids a distant second place to his job. No one signs up to be ignored when they get married.

Well Bill certainly has a great friend in Lew. He is good at what he does. Story is well written and extremely interesting. Sounds like Bill will make a better effort to reconnect with his kids and at least he is on speaking terms with Debbie. I don't really care much for Debbie, especially the way she was in those emails for six months with Doug (Lance). I have no hard feelings towards him as he was only trying to score but with Debbie she appears to always trying to dress and looking to see if guys were checking her out. She as much admitted to that to Lew in their meeting. Anyway, great story and want to thank you for sharing it with us.

men are accused of thinking with their cocks by women, but clearly you have portrayed Debbie as woman thinking only with her pussy. I am not being delicate about this because I do think many men behave badly around women when their brain lies between their legs. Maybe that is why when a woman does it - and it is not normal to who ever said that - we react badly because we do not want to think of women that way. I like that Bill is beginning to understand that while their problem was not just hers, that in fact, she can take much more responsibility for it; that is as soon as she grows up a little more to do so. I did not like her at the beginning of the chapter: you really let us into her head. And what I saw was predetory and arrogant. AND OMG selfish. Teenager selfish. She was the center of the universe as you portrayed her. She used Bill and more so as she got deeper into her mid-life "crisis". Bill's marriage crisis set his off. Interestingly, his solution was more mature and grownup. I am also interested in the idea that such an educated and sophiticated woman in such a public position was able to mask her lust so well, even from her husband. I do believe that is possible, but I would like to see an explanation of it. Again, I worry about the good writer syndrome. You have made her despicable, almost unredeemable. IF you have reonciliation in mind, you are going to have to be quite the writer to bring them back together. By the way, I think these comments have turned into a writer's club. All of us out here reading this great story, reacting, and throwing out feeling and suggestions. Keep up the good work!

I think the harshest realization for Debbie is going to be when she comes to understand that Bill loved her and not just the window dressing while all the other men she's attracted to just want her for sex.

Its also going to drive her crazy with jealousy when Bill is finally free and all the women come out of the woodwork to try to date him.

I don't think Lew is done yet with standing up for Bill. He's going to stir the pot some more.

Grumpy stop SPINNING... focus on what Happened.

This comment of yours really shows us that you a TRUE inbecile:

......."By the consensus of these comments, any woman who has a high sex drive, sees appealing men and thinks about what sex with them would be like, and occasionally engages in petting is a slut...."

that isnt what happened you asshole. Not even close.

This is NOT a HIGH sex drive:

A well educated mature college professor goes up to oppposing counsel dress in sexually suggestive manner ... shaking her ass and tits... offers to give him a BK and says right to their face ... hey lets fuck...

is out of control. if you think THAT behavior would be viewd as Normal if debbie was Man then you sir are an idiot.

whats makes her a slut is that she has ended a marriage and place her career in SERIOUS jepoardy for some Cock.

but you think when men does this is doesnt blow up in theor favce BECUASE they are men ?

tell me dummy have you ever hear of Bill clinton? John Edwards?

Ted Kennedy ? larry Craig? newt Gingrich? Gov Sanford formerly of SC ? Gary hart?

dude what planet are Living on????

DQS,

I HOPE this is not THE END.

Kudos! Great writing. B watching for 02E.

xtremedd

I think Debbie was pretty much revealed for what she is in this chapter, particularly in the dialog with Lew. What was telling about that scene to me, is that Debbie really didn't care what he said to her, or what ultimate truths were revealed. Her thoughts tell us that she has always been attracted to the bad guys that treat her like crap and Bill is the first "nice guy" she ever fell for.

No doubt she is going to get into trouble in future chapters and Bill will ride to her rescue because that is just what he does. I hope he does not get back together with her, because she simply does not deserve him. Not that he is perfect, but she is less so, other than having a great body and being good looking. That is something that will not last and I hope the story brings that out in spades. Some women are beautiful and are still nice people, some are in love with themselves and not much of a person to be around on a full time basis.

I'm speaking specifically about Debbie's thoughts, as DQS revealed them. Not about her affair with Doug.. JUST her thoughts...

There are at least 40 comments on this chapter alone calling Debbie a slut. She had an emotional affair, and she allowed other men to touch her from time to time. That makes her a slut? Apply the same behavior to a man, what's he called?

Normal.

Debbie is over sexed? She has a high libido. Apply that to a man, what's it called then?

Normal.

Debbie has a hormonal imbalance because she has a high sex drive? Apply that to a man and what's it called?

Normal.

By the consensus of these comments, any woman who has a high sex drive, sees appealing men and thinks about what sex with them would be like, and occasionally engages in petting is a slut.

What is a man called when he does the above? Normal.

Double Standards! I cry foul! Find another word or make it apply across the board gentlemen!

A nice meaty installment. Lew is the man. I'm hoping that what debbie said about Mona is just her projecting her own sluttiness onto mona and an attempt to get lew off balance. If Mona is cheating I'd like to see lew scorch the earth and then go into practice with Bill.

I think there is a set up going on here for Bill to become the protector for Debbie or his daughter from an enraged and mental Doug. I really think Debbbie's mother's prediction will come true...but too little too late for reconciliation.

Debbie is starting to wake up and the fact that she was using a dildo while thinking about Bill is an indication of that. I think Debbie might so something like call out Bill's name during sex with Doug.

There are so many possiblities in this story. I love it. I can't wait for the next installment.

Your female characters suck both figuratively and literally. I feel sorry for you, evidently you have never been exposed to any women of substance. A friend of mine said I had to read your story; it’s the next Back to Bristol. Naw! To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, you’re no Garyapb.

I really like this story. Don't worry about the time between chapters. If that's what it takes to create a really great story. So be it. Thanks for writing and posting it here

You are keeping me confused about Debbie. She seemed to be pretty much a heartless witch in the first chapters, utterly destroying Bill without any hint of guilt or compassion. In this chapter we begin to see the "slut" within, the teasing of men and emotional cheating and lying. But...problem is at the same time we see a bit of guilt over how she lied and had a secret life behind Bill's back. Soooo.....not sure where you are going with Debbie, nor Mona. She just seems so over the top when it comes to acting slutty. My husband and I like where you are taking Bill, and Lew is special. We worry about Mona, but maybe you are going to bring Joyce into Lew's life if Mona turns out to be a cheater like Debbie. Anyway, this was a good chapter. Thanks, Linda & Gary

I think that Bill's statement to Debbie that there would not be another Mrs. Maitland may well hold true. However, he'll probably have a couple of women as close friends in the continuing story. In this regard, I see Bill and Debbie as working together to guide their children through their teens, but from this chapter I don't see Bill taking a 2nd chance with Debbie as a wife. There would have to be a lot of counseling for this to be ever be possible. I also get the feeling from the story that Jessica Stephens is going to be his close colleague both at the courthouse and main support in his bid to become state attorney general. Jessica may also become Bill's lady as they seemed quite compatible in their after work night out at O'Brien's. RAG

Everyone seemed to have liked this chapter, but me. If anything, I despise the Debby character even more. She seems to be a dim-witted, vindictive Slut. And to blame Bill for putting his job first is just too cliched. SOME jobs, have to come first! Who wants a Surgeon, Pilot, Attorney, Clergy, or Engineman with their eyes on the clock?

I assume this story is going in a reconciliation direction, because if they were going their separate ways, this would be a good point to end it, and you say the story is far from over.

If that's the case, you have to keep a balancing act, where neither of the main characters becomes a cliche or cardboard cutout. Right now, the problem is Debbie. She's turning into an over the top "shameless slut" cliche. The way out I think is to have her go through some major maturation and changes in her life. The husband has seen this divorce as a wake up call to shake up his life, and now Debbie needs to do the same. Hopefully, she's going through a midlife crisis without really realizing it yet, and that is taking her focus on her sex appeal to absurd levels as she worries about aging and so forth, and she'll be able to come down from that.

So, in short, I'd like to see this story focus more on Debbie for a while, because she's got a lot of issues to sort out. And by the way, I'm still very pissed at how she denigrated him in the last chapter, telling him the only way he could have sex was to pay for it, etc... I hope those comments aren't forgotten, and that there's eventual consequences from them.

Author - this chapter was well done and engaging. It was refreshing to see the next installment finally come out so we do not have to read all the irrelevant bullshit from the "dick-less wonder - size guy". That idiot is as lame as the cock-hungry slut Debbie. Both size guy & the character Debbie are trying to impress somebody and it is not working at all. It was insightful to see Debbie could think of hardly anything else except about getting pounded by Lew and any other young cub. You know her true self-centered vain personality comes into play when she is hitting upon her ex-husband's divorce attorney. Lew's character development was also done very well. Thank you author for a chapter. Debra & Wayne

Maybe someone has already said this, in one of the many comments. One thing for sure, Mona is cheating with Norm. At least I was able to make this connection from the other story of this auther "The Last Goodbye". The names do match :)